Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
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Elder User
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From: Canada
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
Hi All,
Stupid question time:
I am in the process of parting out this 79 f-150 I am wrecking and an interesting question came up - is the 351 engine a Windsor or a Cleveland?
I am assuming it is a Cleveland because it is a 351 M. I was told that the Windsors are a 351 W.
Can anyone tell me what I have for sure?
?????????????:-X11???????????????????
Thanks!
Stupid question time:
I am in the process of parting out this 79 f-150 I am wrecking and an interesting question came up - is the 351 engine a Windsor or a Cleveland?
I am assuming it is a Cleveland because it is a 351 M. I was told that the Windsors are a 351 W.
Can anyone tell me what I have for sure?
?????????????:-X11???????????????????
Thanks!
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 2
From: Gainesville, FL
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
Q,
You've got an "M". It is in the Cleveland "335" family. It is not a cleveland, officially. The cleveland is a big block and bolts to a C6, so does the "M".
A Windsor has not been built for quite a few years, if I'm not mistaken. It is a small block and bolts to a C4. It resembles a high deck 302. That last statement may be a bit misleading, sorry, but that's my subjective opinion.
You've got a "M". Typical for 1979 F-Series.
KingFisher
P.S. The stupid question is: What's the "M" stand for????? Here we gooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
You've got an "M". It is in the Cleveland "335" family. It is not a cleveland, officially. The cleveland is a big block and bolts to a C6, so does the "M".
A Windsor has not been built for quite a few years, if I'm not mistaken. It is a small block and bolts to a C4. It resembles a high deck 302. That last statement may be a bit misleading, sorry, but that's my subjective opinion.
You've got a "M". Typical for 1979 F-Series.
KingFisher
P.S. The stupid question is: What's the "M" stand for????? Here we gooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2002
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From: Southwestern Michigan
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
The Cleveland is a big block by design,however:The cleveland engine has a small block bolt pattern for the tranny ie;it shares the same pattern as the 289,302,351w and even the 300 inline six.
You Probably have a 351 modified(351m) which is a modified cleveland.there are some C6 trannys with the small block bolt pattern but they are few.
78 F150 4x4
429 CID
Dana 44 spooled Front,
9"Locked rear,
5:13 Gears
17/40/15 Gumbo monster mudders
18/39.5/15 Swamper Boggers
BIG,BAD,and UGLY.
You Probably have a 351 modified(351m) which is a modified cleveland.there are some C6 trannys with the small block bolt pattern but they are few.
78 F150 4x4
429 CID
Dana 44 spooled Front,
9"Locked rear,
5:13 Gears
17/40/15 Gumbo monster mudders
18/39.5/15 Swamper Boggers
BIG,BAD,and UGLY.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,531
Likes: 1
From: in the country
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
I was under the assumption that the 351m\400\351c--429\460 all had the same bolt pattern on the back of the block , i.e. one bell housing will fit them all collectively<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>Whereas the 302\351w.....etc , Was , Has a different bolt pattern on the back of the block and requires a different bell housing---Is this not correct????-------fd
:-X11
:-X11
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Elder User
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From: Canada
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-Aug-02 AT 06:52 PM (EST)]It seems that the opinons seem to indicate that the 351 M is a modified cleveland.
If it helps, there is a C-6 tranny bolted to it.
Thanks Guys!
FYI -My "GOOD
the one in the picture gallery)79 has a 302 with a C-6 bolted to it.
If it helps, there is a C-6 tranny bolted to it.
Thanks Guys!
FYI -My "GOOD
the one in the picture gallery)79 has a 302 with a C-6 bolted to it.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: in the country
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
To further amplify my delination of the two groups of engine(s) based upon the two different bolt patterns on the back of the block----observe how Kermit the Ford guy and his assissitant Fuzzy(face)Moto have organized the engines into specific discussion groups!!!!!fd , :-X11
:-X11 Trending Topics
Senior User
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Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
The 351M was designated the M to tell it from the Cleveland block or the Windsor Block, Some say the M is for michigan, some say it is for modified. It is in fact a modified 351C with longer stroke among other things. another way to tell a 351M from a 351W is the valves themselves if the valve covers are removed. The M will have the valves staggered whereas a 351W will have them all in a straight line.
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From: Virginia
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
fatdaddy, the 351c has the same bellhousing pattern as the 300 six, 289,302,351w. The 351m, 400, 429, 460, all share the same bellhousing pattern.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,613
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From: Coal country
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
Try this link I found. It has a lot of good info, from the original Ford pubs, about the different engine families.
http://www.gessford.com/images/FordMuscleStory.htm
http://www.gessford.com/images/FordMuscleStory.htm
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
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From: Brea CA
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
fatdaddy, I think I know what you're saying but the 351C has the smallblock bolt pattern.
Now here's an oddity, a 400 with the smallblock bolt pattern. Only a very few were made and I think hawkrod has what's left
. Bet some Pantera owners would love to get their hands one one. You can see the outline of the big block pattern but it's not drilled.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=4219&.jpg
Barry
Now here's an oddity, a 400 with the smallblock bolt pattern. Only a very few were made and I think hawkrod has what's left
. Bet some Pantera owners would love to get their hands one one. You can see the outline of the big block pattern but it's not drilled. https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=4219&.jpg
Barry
Posting Guru
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Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
Boy , I woulda really sounded like I knew them old fords cause I --Could---have told everybody that I had just found me a 351c that would "boltup" to my old 400 bellhousing , then their suspensions about my 2 digit I.Q. would have been confirmed!!!!!!!!fd :-X11
:-X11 
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From: Louisville,Ky.
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
The 351C was made from late 69 to 74. The 351m/400 came out later. The Cleveland block is stronger and the deck height is shorter than a 351M or 400. Thus they take a different intake manifold. The 351C uses a smallblock bellhousing. The 351m/400 use the 385 series ( 429/460 ) bolt pattern. The easiest way to tell the difference between a 351W and a 351M is the location of the thermostat housing. The 351W is on the front of the intake. The 351M/400 is on the block in front of the intake. The 351c,351m and 400 do not have water passages in the intake( ya gotta love the Cleveland for that ) so the intake can be removed without having to drain the coolant. And yes, the 351w has 6 valvecover bolts and the 351m/400 have 8.
Jimmy
Jimmy
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Elder User
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From: Canada
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
I'm getting lost here:So I know I have a 351 M.
It has eight-bolts on the valve covers.
The Vin # says so.
But what is the M designation?
Is it:
A) Modified Cleavland
B) Michigan
C) Modified 351c (in which case does the C not stand for Cleavland?)
One other note of mention - does any one out there need/want this engine? It is for sale to a good home.
Cheers,
Posting Guru
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From: Southwestern Michigan
Stupid Question Time - Windsor or Cleveland - How to tell????
"M" stands for modified,It is a modified cleveland engine
78 F150 4x4
429 CID
Dana 44 spooled Front,
9"Locked rear,
5:13 Gears
17/40/15 Gumbo monster mudders
18/39.5/15 Swamper Boggers
BIG,BAD,and UGLY.
78 F150 4x4
429 CID
Dana 44 spooled Front,
9"Locked rear,
5:13 Gears
17/40/15 Gumbo monster mudders
18/39.5/15 Swamper Boggers
BIG,BAD,and UGLY.