ok i've got a new topic for everyone that i actually i have never seen in here
before!

i have been doing a LOT of experimenting with shackle angles and locations and i wanna try something else.... sliders

i have been doing some research on them and have thought about making a set but i wanted to get some other opinons first. i have found so far that the leaf springs have a far less slop and have much more stability, esp laterally, when runnign sliders. the biggest thing i am worried about is the fact that sliders DONT have all the slop, i wanna be able to flex my springs a good bit. i am worried that they will limit how far the leaf spring flexes b/c the axle travles in an arch and therfore would bind the slider if it got to be too extreme. i have thought about maybe sticking a rocker b/t the frame and the slider to eliminate this binding.

the thing i like most about them is they are far simpler than shackles with having to deal with angles and you could keep a pretty straight pinion angle seeing as you pull the leaf pack right next to the frame.

any thoughts? Pros? Cons? anyone add anything else?

-cutts-

 

I've looked into this just a little in the past and from what I could see the articulation would be fairly limited. I've actually gone to a spring bushing in the new shackles that I'm building to increase the amount of flex I can get. 2 bushings allow for quite a few degrees of bend whereas you'll be fairly limites with just one. You also have to keep in mind that with a slider you're not allowing the leaf spring to drop or raise. It can only move forward or backward. With a shackle I can physically move the spring end 8" up or down, not to speak of the flex of the spring itself. I really wish I'd taken pictures when I was screwing around with this last month. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll get it rolling and be able to throw it on the forklift for some pics and measurements.

 

Actually sliders offer just as much articulation as a shackle does, as it allows for more front and back movement which makes up for the up and down the shackles offer. sliders in my eye seem that they would be strong as well as there is more material that holds the spring to ther frame verse a shackle. Also you wouldn't have the clearence issues that shackles can sometimes have with the frame.

But here is the one MAJOR problem with sliders and the biggest question that makes me leary of sliders is how would you keep it lubricated without having to get out 3+ times a day to grease it? Maybe some type of bearing arrangement in the slider (the part that slides), but then dirt becomes an issue getting up in there, or maybe on could have grease zerks hooked up to a series of hose and run into the cab to a grease gun so you wouldn't have to get out and grease it all the time.

If you could solve that problem right there i know i for one would be doing it, and probably a lot of others as well, as i think thats a big reason why you don't see more poeple doing it.

 

I disagree Mustang. A spring can only go so flat. Once it's compressed as far as it's going it isn't going any further (unless you have enough weight to overload it and bend it backwards in which case you're screwed anyway). When the spring is flattened the only way to get more articulation is to push the end of it higher in relation to the truck frame. Unless you have royally screwed up shackle issues this should be several inches of extra movement. Same goes for the opposite side of the rig which is now hanging. With a slider when the spring reaches it's unloaded position you're going to pick your axle up whereas with a shackle once you reach this position the shackle will just drop until it's straight up and down (sometimes even pointing in). Shackles are allowing movement beyond the limitation of the spring provided you have a shackle flip and proper angles.

 

oh oh..i see an experment comin on....

 

I'm glad I live in a different state

I'm all for experimentation, but I'll stick with shackles, thank you.

 

Hahaha! I've heard about those college kids and their "experimentation". Fishy just couldn't get the angle right.

I'll put my crazy shackles up against a slider any day. I have a feeling people will crap themselves when they see it on a forklift.

 

I agree. They'll probably have the same look on your face when we had it way up on its side and it almost went through the wall of your dining room

Remember fabricators, saftey first! And protect those crunchberries

 

Why do I get the feeling I'm the only fabricator who needs to wear a cup when I work? Oh well, it was worth a good laugh once the swelling went down.

 

ivan thats an execellent point that i haven't thought of! you're right the shackles would allow an inch or 2 at least of play once the leaf pack becomes completely loaded or unloaded. but do you think the extra couple of inches could be worth it?

you're right i have yet to get my shackle angles where i want them and i am honestly getting fed up! no to mention it looked kinda cool.... they look like they might work if the slider bracket is long enough to allow enough play for when the suspension is fully loaded or unloaded

this is just a thought... i'm not saying its a great thing or a bad thing, just something different. thanx for the replies

-cutts-

 

Yeah, I think the extra couple of inches is worth is, plus the simplicty of the shackle vs. building a slider. You're looking at 2-3" of difference from the 35-40* position of the shackle at rest. That can be 2-3" up or 2-3" down. But when you're talking articulation you have to take both sides into account. Now you're talking a difference of 6" between the spring eyes, not counting the spring flex at all. 6" is a pretty significant amount but take it a step further and build your own extended shackles. That 6" can now easily become 8-10" of movement between the two sides. That's a MAJOR twist for the axle. A good set of springs can double that easily.

Something else I've found (I can't even tell you how many revisions I've made to my rear suspension just to try and get the most out of it) is that if you get your rear spring to lay flatter you'll increase the flex in it by a fair amount. As the suspension comes stock the centering pin doesn't sit much lower than the front eye of the spring while the back of the spring sits very high, probably 6-8" difference. The tension in the spring tends to sit more in front of the axle than the rear. As you bring the rear mounting point lower it changes where the tension is in the spring and will give you better flex. The rear of my spring now sits about even with the front eye and it flexes like mad. Just something you might want to play around with.

 

thanx for all the insight Ivan! i'll leave the sliders for pavenment pounders!

lol, didn't take long!

-cutts-

 

I see what you mean with the additional few inches, but when using stock shackles i can't really see there being a whole lot of difference, but with set of longer shackles i can defenitaly see the advantage. I still think this would make a good camparo test of sorts for the mags to do, or someone with a lot of extra time on their hands.

 

Even with stock shackles there's a big difference, just as I pointed out above. Minimum difference will still be 4" total articulation. Move that from the springs out to the wheels and you're looking at about 10" five or take. This means if we have identical vehicles with identical springs and stock shackles (flipped) vs. the slider we can put one rear tire on the shackle vehicle up 10" higher than the slider vehicle while the opposite side is still on the ground. That's a big difference if you ask me and that's just with stock shackles. Now extend those shackles by 2" each and correct your shackle angle and see what happens. This is not even to mention the binding that you'll experience when you start twisting a spring in a slider.

 

So whats all this talk about shackle angles and crap? Does this mean there is a possibility that I've gotta re-design my design? Sorry for being retarted, but I didn't realize there was this big of an art to the whole deal........