i have a 2004 f-150 fx4 5.4L engine. i recently was in an interesting conversation w/ a mechanic. he believes that ford's primary reason for requiring the use of a 5w20 dura-blend oil is to increase the manufacturer's fuel economy ratings. he went on to say that if you used a quality traditional oil and were religious on performing your oil changes every 3k miles, your engine will be fine. does anyone have any comments or data that they could input into these statements as to their validity or falsity?

thanks for your time and input,

rob

 

He may be right, but since 5w-20 is what Ford recommends, that's what I'd use.

There are a few non-synthetic, non-blend 5w-20 oils on the market if cost is an issue.

 

Motorcraft 5w20 at Wallyworld for 1.42/qt.

 

The 5w20 is for fleet MPG increases and the newer motors require it due to tighter tolerances in the newer motors.

There are a lot of threads on here about oil.

Personaly I would stick to 5w20 or 5w30.

 

5W-20 is due to a CAFE ( Corporate Average Fuel Economy) requirement for fuel econmy placed on auto manufacurers. This caused the oil companies to develop improved additives to combat wear, shear etc., for low vis oil. One of the reasons this stuff was not generally available when manufacturers put this in their spec back in 2002.

The reason for requiring 5W-20 motor oil has to do with Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFÉ) requirements. CAFÉ requirements, enacted by the U.S. Congress in 1975, mandate that all vehicle manufacturers selling passenger cars in the United States must meet certain fuel economy levels. Ford believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5W-20 motor oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce U.S. fuel consumption by over 21 million gallons a year. Mike Riley, product design engineer with Ford Motor Company, said “Moving to 5W-20 was driven by using best technology oils, CAFÉ requirements and customer needs.”
In order to ensure lighter viscosity 5W-20 oils don’t sacrifice engine durability, Ford ran extensive tests on 5W-20 oil, including engine dynamometer tests with each 2001 Ford engine and extensive field tests comparing 5W-20 and 5W-30 oils in various fleets under severe operating conditions. The data was used to create their own oil specification for 5W-20 oil known as WSS-M2C153-H, which includes all ILSAC (GF-3) requirements, as well as an additional double-length ASTM Sequence III Test.

Had nothing to do with engine tolerences. In fact tighter tolerences would cause less fuel economy. The tolerences being tighter is a mis-nomer. Ford went back 1 to 2 years later and sent out a letter of switiching to 5W-20 on engines speced for 10W-30. It was a fuel economy/emissions requirement dictated by Uncle Sam.

 

Thank you KavinM for a no Bull Answer.

 

5w-20 does have to do with tighter tolerances. I used to be a tech at the local ford dealer, we had a crownvic (4.6) come in on a tow-truck three times(the same car) for the cam followers coming off and lodging in the valve train. The third time we contacted ford they said the only thing that they knew of that would cause cam followers to come off is to heavy of an oil. When we ask the customer what oil he put in the car he said 10w-30. the 4.6 calls for 5w-30. The next week a state trooper (5.4) came in on a tow-truck,he got on the gas hard to catch a speeder and blew the oil filter clean off the eng.(the base of the filter was still tight on the eng.). We ask what oil he had in the car. He said he just had it changed and had 10w-40 put in it like he used run in his last car (5.8). I forget the number but ford did issue a TSB about using to heavy an oil in the 4.6 & 5.4 do to tighter tolerances in the motors. I'm not trying to step on anybodys tows here this is just what I have learned when I was a tech. and I use the oil ford says to in my supercew 5.4

 

R.W.F.
Think you have your facts incorrect!
No way are the tolerances closer, in fact if you were a Tech back in 1998 to 2002 do you remember when the 5.4, and 4.8 had piston slap. Why because of wide tolerences, they fixed it by increasing the length of piston skirts. On the instance of a cam follower coming off I suspect is a result of a defect in tolerences. 4.6 engines had cylinder head tollerance problems back then. Go take a rebuild book and compare it to pre 5w-20 engines guess what the tolerences are pretty close to the same.
5W-20 was a result of a keeping Ford from paying penalties not complying with the CAFE requirements period. Companies will pay 5.5% for every 0.1 mpg below standard.
5W-20 has nothing to do with tolerences. You are misinformed. I am also concerned about your comment of 5W-30 vs 10W-30 oil being to heavy of an oil. W stands for winter. In essence there is not much difference, both flow like 30W at operating temp. Come on 10W-40 blowing off an oil filter. Your either passing bad info, the oil pump bypass valve in the oil pump was stuck, or the weld on the canister was defective.
The TSB you are thinking of did not mention tighter tolerences but a change due to CAFE regulations. It stated for those vehicle originally speced for 10W 30, that Ford now recommends 5W-20. Why because the TSB was written to conform with the new CAFE fuel economy and pollution regs.

BTW the TSB was 0147 posted 2001 regarding 1997 and up.

Please get your facts straight!

 

The difference is at startup when the oil is cold. The 10w-30 is going to be thicker, and will take longer to circulate and lubricate. Eventually it'll thin out and be the same as 5w-30.

 

Gary421, give me a break the the difference between 10W and 5W is minimul, go check the flow characteristics. And there is no way the W designation with a difference between 5 and 10 is going to throw a cam follower. The W designates very cold temps ( winter conditions)normal temps they will flow pretty much the same.

 

I didn't say you would throw a cam follower, Kevin. I simply said that 5w-30 would flow and lubricate faster than would 10w-30.

As you said.....they'll flow "pretty much the same" at normal temps. Of course, unless "pretty much the same" means that they'll flow identically the same, then I'll stand by what I said.

 

Gary42141
As the Ford tech claimed the cam follower was thrown due to using 10W-30 vs 5W-30. Being that the difference is only 5 points between, the two the flow difference even at cold startup is minimul. The 5 point "W" (winter) difference is only relavent at the extreme low end of flow temperature specs which would probably be near
-50deg F. So to say that the 5 point difference will net better flow when cold is not even on the radar screen.
Stand by what you want but it's inaccurate! You can't arbitrarlly state one flows better than the other without citing temperature range. I would agree with your comment if you positoned it stating the 5w-30 will flow better than 10W-30 at -40deg F. But this was not the case in the above comment, by the Ford tech!

 

At ambient temperature sitting in your oil pan, 5w-30 oil will have a lower viscosity than will 10w-30 oil. As the temperature of the oil increases, the difference in viscosity becomes less and will eventually be virtually the same.

Here are some numbers from Amsoil regarding this.

AMSOIL 5W-20 is 45.0 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 8.9 cST @ 100 deg. C
AMSOIL 0W-30 is 57.3 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.3 cST @ 100 deg. C
AMSOIL 5W-30 is 59.5 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 deg. C
AMSOIL 10W-30 is 66.1 cST @ 40 deg. C, & 11.7 cST @ 100 deg. C.

Unless you're in an area with ambient temperatures of 40 C or 104 F, the difference in viscosity of the oil at startup will be even more pronounced.

At startup, the lower viscosity oil is going to flow better and provide lubrication quicker than will the higher viscosity oil, even if this difference is small. Engine wear, being something that occurs over time, isn't something you're going to notice today, or tomorrow. Of course, how many times do you start your engine in a year? At startup, your engine is bone dry in terms of lubrication. Personally, even if the difference is small...I'd prefer an oil which will flow faster.

But that's just me, Kevin. It's your truck....use what you want.

 

Gary42141- hang it up, your comment on startup that your engine is bone dry shows your lack of knowledge, all engines and oils have residual oil film. It's even specd in the oil additives. Taking the 10W30 and 5W30 a difference of 6.6 cst @ 40 degrees C is nothing. Think you have been reading to many AMSOIL ads without understanding what you are reading. With todays additives wear between numbers of that small magnitude is negliable, BTW 40 degree C is not considerd cold startup, 40 degrees C = 104 degree fahrenheit, hardly considered cold statup. What you are citing is viscosity index which only depicts normal operating range. Not cold startup! You need to look at the ASTM D-2602 Standard Test numbers. Now show me the numbers for -5 deg C. Because the numbers you are citing are do not track the same at very low temps compared to your 40deg C to 100deg C.
It is my truck and you are arguing a mute point! It's obvious you never tore an engine down since you think your engine is bone dry at start up.
Since you are throwing non essential AMSOIL data around the numbers that tell the true cold startup for a given oil is the centerpoise number, 5w30@-25C is 2320cp, and for 10W30 is 2300cp @-20C . Hardly anything to get into a debate. Not significant enough to say that 5w/30 flows that much better than 10W30.

 

Hang it up yourself, Kevin. An oil with a lighter viscosity at ambient temperatures will flow better than one with a heavier viscosity. Period.

Now.....if you'd like to talk about how much better, go right ahead. That doesn't change what I've been saying...which is that it'll flow better.

Have a swell day.