Fuel Pumpless 6.9 IDI !!
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Freshman User
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Fuel Pumpless 6.9 IDI !!
Have a bizarre anamoly happening with my 86 6.9 IDI.
I have owned this truck for some 6 months and about a month
ago my IP went out. Finally forked over the much reserved $$$ and spent the two hours or so putting it back in.
Now there is no Fuel vacuum nor pressure to deliver fuel.
Took look around and noticed that the mech pump has been bypassed, all I have is the a rubber hose fitted to the steel line with the addition of a fuel filter coupled with a 12V fuel relay feeding the Big Fuel Filter....
So I then went hunting for the elec fuel pump...
Doesn't have one. The previous owner even bypassed the water fuel separator.
Has anyone seen this awkward or not setup before?
Can some one tell me how this works and what I need to do to get this
bad boy up and running?
I have owned this truck for some 6 months and about a month
ago my IP went out. Finally forked over the much reserved $$$ and spent the two hours or so putting it back in.
Now there is no Fuel vacuum nor pressure to deliver fuel.
Took look around and noticed that the mech pump has been bypassed, all I have is the a rubber hose fitted to the steel line with the addition of a fuel filter coupled with a 12V fuel relay feeding the Big Fuel Filter....
So I then went hunting for the elec fuel pump...
Doesn't have one. The previous owner even bypassed the water fuel separator.
Has anyone seen this awkward or not setup before?
Can some one tell me how this works and what I need to do to get this
bad boy up and running?
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Northeastern Pa - USA
The diesel engine uses a "lift" pump located on the side of the block like a gas engine. You will have to work backwards to determine if that pump is working or took a crap on you. OR, the previous owner has installed an electric pump to move the fuel from the tank to the injection pump and I would venture to guess that pump is forward of the fuel selector valve inside the frame rail under the driver. Also, try bleeding all the air from the pressure lines by loosening the top connector on all injectors. You will have to work your way from the filter housing to the injection pump then to the injectors. Dont crank the starter too long at one time, they are susceptible to heat damage.
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The pump has been bypassed.
I followed the fuel line from the the fuel selection valve to the water-fuel separator located in front of the brake booster where there the previous owner has used a metal line to jump pass the water-fuel separator. That fuel line then continues directly to the fuel filter (gas type) 12V relay combo package installed before the typical Fuel Filter (above the valve cover).
Interesting fact, I took my 12V Tire inflator and pumped air through and felt it on the other side.
Unless e-fuel pumps are super small, I'm missing something here.
I followed the fuel line from the the fuel selection valve to the water-fuel separator located in front of the brake booster where there the previous owner has used a metal line to jump pass the water-fuel separator. That fuel line then continues directly to the fuel filter (gas type) 12V relay combo package installed before the typical Fuel Filter (above the valve cover).
Interesting fact, I took my 12V Tire inflator and pumped air through and felt it on the other side.
Unless e-fuel pumps are super small, I'm missing something here.
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Fuel Filter 12V Fuel Relay Combo.
Here is how this is laid out on my 89 F250 6.9 IDI.
The metal fuel line comming from the water-fuel separator is routed to a rubber fuel line instead of to the mech fuel pump (lift pump), by the way which is still mounted, this rubber fuel hose runs upside the fender wall into this fuel filter which resembles the typical gas type which is then coupled to a 12V fuel relay by carter, 12VADA???. From there there is a rubber fuel line that connects directly to the standard Diesel Fuel Filter.
Here is how this is laid out on my 89 F250 6.9 IDI.
The metal fuel line comming from the water-fuel separator is routed to a rubber fuel line instead of to the mech fuel pump (lift pump), by the way which is still mounted, this rubber fuel hose runs upside the fender wall into this fuel filter which resembles the typical gas type which is then coupled to a 12V fuel relay by carter, 12VADA???. From there there is a rubber fuel line that connects directly to the standard Diesel Fuel Filter.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Northeastern Pa - USA
that's almost worth the trip to texas just to see. OK, you are not getting fuel to the injection, nespas? and the fuel pickup line is disconnected from the mechanical pump? and the delivery line from the mechanical pump is disconnected and some type of electrical fuel pump manufactured by Carter is on the fender wall (under the hood) and this has a filter between it and the fuel selector valve? The electric fuel pumps are designed to push the fuel and this one is pulling it and up hill to boot. Try checking the fuses or look for an inline fuse to that electric pump. Is there an on/off switch somewhere on the dash? the injection pump will not pull the fuel, it has to be fed fuel to work. If you want to stay with that electric pump, try to relocate it down by the selector valve and have it push the fuel thru the filter to the injection pump (you need about 7 psi to feed the injection pump) and then you can bleed the pressure lines to the injectors. Hope this helps get your scooter running. I wonder how that previous owner gets his horse going in the morning??
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
The location of the fuel pump may have led to the failure of the ip. With the system closed, it held prime, but after you opened it up to get the ip off, it lost it's prime, now it can't get the fuel moving again. It needs to be relocated down to near the tank switch. I have done the quick fix install on gassers to wherew the elecric pump was installed at the location of the mechanical, and end up facing vapor lock problems, and would have to stop and reprime the pumps to get going again. The modern electric pumps hardly look like a pump, but if it is in the fuel line, it is a pump, not a relay.A relay is a switch that turns the pump on and off. Carter is a well known fuel system manufacturer.
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Freshman User
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Bilder12, Fellro86.
Thanks for the reply, I did some digging this morning and found a picture of the Carter setup, at this address;
http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/030125-1686.html
Not quite the familiar fuel pump. I am going to relocate down by the Fuel Selection Valve and the look at what I can do about hooking up the water-fuel separator my guess is that the one there doesn't work.
Another question though...
I was playing with this Carter setup yesterday and heard the clicking inside but that was it. On these new "streamlined" pumps should there be some other noises to reflect whether it is pushing/pulling fuel?
Thanks for the reply, I did some digging this morning and found a picture of the Carter setup, at this address;
http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/030125-1686.html
Not quite the familiar fuel pump. I am going to relocate down by the Fuel Selection Valve and the look at what I can do about hooking up the water-fuel separator my guess is that the one there doesn't work.
Another question though...
I was playing with this Carter setup yesterday and heard the clicking inside but that was it. On these new "streamlined" pumps should there be some other noises to reflect whether it is pushing/pulling fuel?
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Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
that most certainly is an in tank unit.. weird... It is a vane style pump. Many of the new pumps make a clicking and then hum after building pressure, but this one will as spectramac said, make a kind of zing sound until building pressure, then more of a hum, like you hear under a car or truck with gas engine and injection. It definitely should not be on the firewall. Even in front of the switch may not be the best, as it is designed to be submerged, and is cooled by the fuel that is in the tank. If you want to stay electric, you will need to correct this case of "redneck engineering' with a proper style pump and place it on the frame rail after the switch. Otherwise. put the mechanical pump back in service, and ditch this mess altogether.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 1
From: Prince George, B.C.
One of the best electric pumps you can get is the Carter silver pump, jegs sells them. They work great for diesels and most times outlast the truck, heres the link:
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...10&prmenbr=361
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...10&prmenbr=361
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
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From: Alaska
What you have is a 12v electric vane type fuel pump, it is the same style that is found intank and is also available as an external inline fuel pump.
yours appears to be a low pressure, 6 to 8 lbs, high volume pump and should work very well, IF it is rated for diesel fuel.
If it is working, you will hear it whine, check the polarity, it is important.
yours appears to be a low pressure, 6 to 8 lbs, high volume pump and should work very well, IF it is rated for diesel fuel.
If it is working, you will hear it whine, check the polarity, it is important.
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Thanks for all the info.
I went ahead and purchased a facet e-pump for time being.
Immediate difference noticed.
loosened all of the infectors lines to get the air out, 3+ hours
later (gotz to give the starter a break), still no diesel drip, now I'm chasing a possible leak/plug in the return line. Ughhh!
I went ahead and purchased a facet e-pump for time being.
Immediate difference noticed.
loosened all of the infectors lines to get the air out, 3+ hours
later (gotz to give the starter a break), still no diesel drip, now I'm chasing a possible leak/plug in the return line. Ughhh!
Last edited by jlpmba; Aug 23, 2004 at 11:15 PM.
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 455
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From: Alaska
If you remove the glowplugs, you can spin the engine over without the compression, reducing the load on the starter, you can then bleed the injector lines and when you have injection, you will see white fuel puffs from the glow plug holes, replace the glowplugs and it will start right up.
(crossed fingers).
(crossed fingers).