Like so many other people I want to to put headers on my 66. I've read many posts from many people about what works and what doesn't, so after all that research I decided to go with Sanderson short headers. I'm building a 408 stroker that should make 400-450 HP, so a set of long tubes would have been nice to take advantage the 408 HP range, but the going through the hassle of finding a set of long tubes which would fit wasn't something I wanted to do. I've also added a power steering box from a 70s F100 and running an AOD transmission. Oil Pan is out of a late 80s F150 2WD with the rear sump and screw in dipstick.
I have the luxury of living near a Summit warehouse so I can easily pick up and return headers for trial fitment, although the less I have to do of that the better.

So, I picked up a set of Sanderson FF2 and FF4 short headers for a small block ford. I realize there is a deck height difference between a 302 and 351, and Sanderson's website makes ample mention of this, but when ordering from summit I can find no difference in part #s for 302 vs 351W etc. According to Sanderson's tech support FF2s would fit a 66 with a 351W, but I got a set of FF4s also since I've seen some people use those.

The FF2s fit the drivers side perfectly. The only issue I could see would be routing a Lokar flex dipstick up through the header. The stock dipstick tube wasn't going to work, but I already planned on using the Lokar anyway. The problems came on the passenger side. Like so many other comments I've read on many different brands of headers, the FF2 hit the frame rail. I'm guessing between 1/2 to 1" would need to be notched out of the frame rail which is not something I wanted to do.

Below are a few pics of the FF2 passenger side. You can see how the header hits the frame rail and I can't even tighten the header bolts, so fitment is actually much worse than shown here.






Next I tried the FF4 header. This time both headers fit, but both exited on top of the motor mounts. I assume there are small block ford mounts these would work with, but I did not attempt to try to find any. I like the style I have which is stock for trucks. It's possible the motor mount could be notched for clearance, but I did not want to do that either.






So I tried one additional header style which I had seen mentioned by a few people, one on this forum. Sanderson FF3GTS. In particular, these headers I received from Summit were marked for 289/302. I guess to get a 351W version I would've had to order direct from Sanderson, but that would cost me shipping, time and hassle - and possible return with more shipping charges, so that route was also not acceptable. This time the passenger side exited straight into the firewall. I will assume that if I'd gotten the 351W version of this header intended for the taller deck height (1.3" taller) it would've been a much better fit. It would've still exited toward the firewall, but it would've offered more clearance.






Out of the 3 Sanderson headers I tried, the FF3GTS would've been my choice for the passenger side - if I could've gotten my hands on a 351W version. I thought about going to summit and have them look for a 351W version, but the potential aggravation of doing that kept me from doing it.

So I spent more time scanning the web looking for additional headers to try and I came across some BBKs that looked promising. But, as I was about to order those I stopped myself and took a moment of pause -- and realized the only way I was truly going to be happy was to fab my own set of headers. The workmanship on the Sandersons was OK, but not great. One of them had a collector flange that was bent, the ceramic coating was too thick causing the collector flange to not seat properly, and none of them fit the way I would've liked, I've also read the workmanship on BBKs isn't that great either - I can even see defects in images on their website!

So I'm going to build my own headers. I've built headers before years ago when I had to scratch build everything - flanges, scrounge for bends etc, and all I had was a mig and a torch. Today I can source flanges, bends, collectors etc and I have a tig welder so the process will be much easier and faster. I also have the benefit of the web now to see how the pros jig up custom headers, I know I can do it also.

I'm going to build a mock up and a fixture jig, I've seen it on the web and it works and makes fabbing so much easier. Plus I'l be able to build multiple copies, as I plan to make a few extra sets and sell them if I can find enough interest.

I'm ordering parts (flanges, bends etc) in the next couple days so hopefully I'll have a mockup and jig built in a few weeks. I'll report back when I have some progress to show.
Thanks for looking in...

 

I went through the same thing. Wound up using a block hugger on driver side and engine swap on the pass side. Neither were ideal but did work.

 

I may be interested in a set of those headers. I'm planning on putting a 351w in my 61 this year along w/ a cv swap. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

I went through the same thing with my 351C. The drivers side is easy, plenty of room on that side. The passenger side is tight to say the least. I built my own using a box of bending mistakes. With all the parts and pieces plus having them coated it was right at $500. The biggest problem on the passenger side is the center crossmember. It is real tight and I had to notch mine to be able to get through there and not be too close to the servo on the C6 and stay above the frame rails. It is a pretty labor intensive project but I think you will be happy with the results. I did it with the engine in the bare frame using a core engine I have to fit every thing together. Your job is going to be a lot harder with the cab in place. Also with the long tubes there is no way to install or remove them with the engine bolted in. You will have to raise the engine to remove or install them.

 

There is a set of Hedman Headers for a small block in a pickup. Would they not work?

 

Ford Racing p/n FMS-M-9430-P50 Fox body 5.0/302 shortys work well in '66 frame with PS and AOD. Out of production, but are out there.
Stainless steel, Mustang guys say they last forever. BBK Fox body "off-road" X-pipe can be modded to fit.

 

Nice job Crop Duster. Those are truly long tubes, I was thinking about making mid length tubes with a longer collector to avoid some of what you describe, but long tubes are definitely better for low end torque. Mind if I ask what your tube lengths are and if they're equal length? You had them ceramic coated I assume. For $500 total that's a good deal, the header kit I bought cost almost that much.
'm running an AOD which I think is a little narrower than the C6. I've studied the space I have available quite a bit and it doesn't look too bad. I think the Cleveland block/heads are bigger/wider than a Windsor block?

Gus, I've had enough of guessing at what header might work.

Third66, the BBKs I almost bought were for a Mustang w/302. The 351W's deck height is higher so I don't know if they'd fit or not.

I took my Sandersons back to Summit today and they gave me the stick eye treatment when I returned them, they acted like I'd committed a crime by bringing them back. I've never had them do that to me before, really turned me off from ever buying from them again - if a return is possible. I definitely will not be buying anymore headers for trial fitment from them.

 

To answer your questions. They are not equal length, unequal length is no big deal on a street engine if you keep the tubes somewhere between 22 and 48 inches max. Equal length matters on a race engine but the exact length has to be figured out on a dyno. Something that isn't practical or cost effective for a street engine. Just keep the sharp bends to a minimum. The biggest problem with headers is keeping them far enough away from things you don't want cooked, that usually dictates what they will look like. And that is a ceramic coating. They did a real good job because the inside is coated also. That coating does a good job of keeping the heat inside the header an out of the engine compartment. Keep us updated with some pictures, we like pictures.

 

So I know I started this topic a year ago, but I got sidetracked and put this project off. Now I'm back working on my headers. I've thought a lot about making these over the last year and I think I'm at the point now where I've gotten most of my ideas sorted out - at least in my head.

I'm going to build a PVC mockup before I commit to steel. I know I can build them without one, but I think the mockup will be worth the extra time and expense. I've found several mockup "kits" and components on the web, but most, if not all are pretty pricey. So I'll just make my own pieces. I was going to build a steel jig using the mockup as a pattern but I decided against it, I think I'll be fine without it. The mockup will aid me in tube routing so tacking them together on the vehicle won't be so bad- I hope. Once all the tubes are tacked together and everything fits I'll pull the header off and finish weld it at the bench.

The first set of headers I make will be mild steel. Once I complete them I plan to build a set from stainless at some point. I probably will build a jig to use when making the stainless set so I can reproduce the first set. And by the off chance anyone wants another set, I could build more using the jig. If not, then no biggie...

I made the flange for the mockup from plywood. I also made plywood adapters for the pipe to flange joint, and pipe to collector joint. These round adapters hold the pipe in position and allow for secure anchoring to the flange/collector.

BTW these are not equal length tubes. For this vehicle the extra time and hassle to try and build equal length isn't worth it. I also want to to keep the header tubes as clear from the inner fenders as possible, so snaking the rear tubes up and around in the free space the gain length isn't what I want to do.

a few pics of progress so far:
plywood flange and pipe adapter.


finished mockup








I made and mounted a plywood jig on the frame to hold the collector in position when I take the mockup apart. This will hold the collector in position while I make and attach the steel tubes. I'll try and get a pic of that next time I take some pics.

 

Looks like you have it all figured out for your truck, those are going to be some sharp headers!
I have a foxbody 5.0 I plan on putting in my 63 uni. The PO of the mustang put a pair of JBA shorties on it and I just want to share this with the group because I think this will be a popular post.



Not using this steering box

 

Thanks Thunder.

The headers are coming along, I have three tubes tacked together so far. Clearance is pretty good, the only area that may be a bit of trouble is one lower tube hitting the crossmember. It clears now, but when the engine torques over it may hit, so I may need to notch it. I won't know until I get the engine running some day.




Here's the jig I mentioned to hold the collector in position during fabrication.


And the wooden adapters I made to hold the collector/pipe connections. This is course is only temporary, once everything is fabbed the adapter will be remove and the pipes will be tacked to the collector in their actual location.


For cutting the J-bends I built this cutoff sled. One of the sites I looked at that had header fab videos showed a sled like this, made of metal of course, and the price for it was $600. Yes, 600, not 60. So naturally I made my own. It's wooden as I do lots of woodwork so I have plenty of scraps saved away - and it works. The center pivot point is in the exact center of the bend radius of this pipe, so all the cuts are perfectly square across the tube, no matter the angle. This is very important for tube fitment. If you've ever cut and fit tube bends where the cuts were not "correct" you know the struggle.

Also a word about this bandsaw. Its a woodworking bandsaw but it has 2 speeds. I have it on the slower speed with a bi-metal blade and so far the blade has held up while cutting tubing. In fact it's cuts like butter... But I'm pretty sure cutting thicker steel or stainless would definitely kill the blade. I have ordered the parts to add a jack shaft and extra pulleys to slow the blade way down. Not sure when I'll do that project, but eventually I will.

Thanks for looking in...

 

Super cool project! I've always wanted build a set and will some day. A couple things I noticed here- have you planned on your transmission crossmember clearing? You mentioned crossmember in Post #11 so not sure if you're talking about the engine crossmember. Also, your motor mounts look like they angle forward compared to mine. My truck's a FE so maybe it's just the camera angle. Anyway, great stuff and I love the PVC pipe mock up set! Definitely stealing that idea.

 

Thanks dubya. I got the PVC mockup idea from a header building website so I can't take credit for it. Yes I've checked the tranny crossmember and it clears, the crossmember I was referring to is the one under the bellhousing- not the engine or tranny one. Not sure what to call it... That's the crossmember causing me the most difficulty. The FE and SB engine perches are different so you're probably seeing correctly.

Clearance through there is tight since the starter is almost across from it. I got the tubes to fit 3/8 to 1/2" away from that crossmember so that should be good since the engine rotates away from that spot when it torques over. Clearance against the bellhousing is tight, maybe 1/4" but at least that gap does not change. Also the starter is within 1/4 to 3/8" from the tube but I've already planned to use a mini starter so heatsoaking the starter shouldn't be an issue.
Okay, few more pics.
Here's the crossmember clearance I was referring to:


lower tube to bellhousing. The upper tube above it clears fine, just from this angle it appears it doesn't - but it does.


There's 1/2" of clearance to the floor pan. Not as much as I'd like but that's all I can get and still have crossmember clearance.


Upper views






view from rear of crossmember.


I've already decided to modify the front 2 tubes to gain a little more clearance from the starter/bellhousing so I still have to do that. The tubes are only tacked so modifying at this stage is still pretty easy. Also I said I wasn't going to worry about making the tubes equal length, but I've been thinking about it and I think I may have a way to reroute the rear two tubes and gain some tube length. So we'll see if I actually attempt that....

 

Next, I've had several other header issues to deal with:
-Turns out the header flanges I received in the header kit I bought last year were the wrong ones - they were for 1 5/8 tubes instead of the 1 3/4 I ordered. There's several reasons I didn't catch this until now and too late. Letting it sit for a year didn't help. I have AFR 185 heads, I don't have a stock set of SB heads so I have no way to compare one port to the other. I just assumed the flanges I got for the SB ford were correct and never thought about the wrong tube size. Oh well, crap happens. In the meantime I knew I wanted to port match the flanges to the heads so I did. I had to remove a lot of material from the flange port sides to get them to match the ports when the tubes were installed. Once I had done that the flanges couldn't be returned when I finally caught the size error. So I'm going to order new correct flanges that will be a much better fit. I'll still have to remove material from the sides again, but not as much.

-Starter tubes (the tube transition from rectangular to round) I also ordered a set of these and yep, they were wrong too - they were also sized for 1 5/8 tube/stock ports. Everything still would'a been OK until I modified my flanges and then I realized they weren't going to work. WAY too small..... So I had to figure out how to make my own.

-So how to make my own starter tubes. I found several ways, the easiest being forming with a hammer and vice. Me being a bodyman I figured can't be too hard, right? And it wasn't, except for all the hammer marks that occurred. Since I didn't want knicked up tubes that wasn't going to work. The best option would be a set of forming dies, which I'm sure aren't cheap (if I can even find a set) and most likely wouldn't be sized for my ports anyway. So, since I have a mini mill I decided to make my own set of forming dies. I haven't finished them yet, but I have got them far enough along where I know they'll work. I'll post more about them when I finish them.
PS the too small flanges were making these much harder to make than they should've been. Once I get the correct flanges these are gonna be much easier to make.

-making test starter tubes using my dies, which I did. Now I need to finish my die and make 8 for real with the correct tube/flange size.

-tube bends. The header kit I ordered is only available with 3" centerline radius bends, that's the reason the tube bends kick out so far from the head. As cool as this looks, this radius is not going to work for the drivers side. You can see in the pics below the brake lines and steering box don't offer a lot of room, so I had to look around a find some 2 1/2" centerline radius tube that wasn't cheap China tube, as well as keep in mind eventually I'll need the same tube in stainless. I finally got all that sorted out.

I guess that's about it for now, got some more tubes to make. I'll post pics of the starter tubes and my forming die when I finish it.

I also started working on the drivers side.

 

I've received my new flanges, they fit the ports much better - no pics but they look very similar to this one that I ground out to fit.


To make the starter tubes I milled out a die from 1/2" 7075 aluminum. I would've used 1" thick but I didn't know if 7075 would be strong enough to use as a die - but it has a tensile strength close to that of steel so I bought a piece of 1/2" to give it a try. Now that I know it works if I ever do this again I'll make it from 1" thick. I added alignment pins to hold the two halves in alignment under the press. Gotta say it works well. It does create a couple tool marks, but I think I can get most of that out when I dolly the tube into the flange before final welding.










formed starter tube




Here's the starter tube after cutting to length and installing in the flange.






Working on driver side header










I have the driver side header all tacked together now. Everything fits, got clearance where I need it. The only thing I can't test for is linkage clearance if I ever decide to swap in a manual transmission. I think I have enough clearance for the Z-bar and supports mounts to clear the header, but since I don't have any of that linkage I can't test it.








I ended up changing one of the tubes after I took these pics. The tubes are not exactly equal length but they're close. I've got 2 42s, and 43 and 44 length so that's not too bad considering I originally started out not hoping to achieve equal lengths. Now back to the passenger side to change out the flange and remake a couple tubes to try and get equal length.