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We were a step away from cranking up the rebuilt 215 tonight. Oh SO CLOSE. Temporary wiring, fuel & vacuum lines are in place. Right at the end, we wanted to prime the engine with oil. We put an old distributor with no teeth on gear on top of the oil pump and spun it with an electric drill. We put an oil pressure gauge in the oil pressure sending unit hole to monitor it. Oil starts moving around the motor, we even spotted a leak around the oil canister and fixed that. The oil pressure shoots up to around 50 and I assume at that point the pressure relief value kicks in.
As a last check, we pulled the valve cover to see if oil was making it up oil supply tube to the rocker arm. NO OIL. We pulled the tube and looked down the hole while spinning the pump and NO OIL. I can't find a schemata of how oil flows through the block. Can anyone suggest more steps in troubleshooting this?
Things that cross my mind:
1) of course there's no oil just spinning the pump, something else mechanical is part of moving the oil there
2) there a blockage somewhere in the block itself
3) I need to apply that oil pressure for >30 seconds in order for it to get that far
4) other oversight I can't think of now?
Bring us up to speed on exactly what has been done to the engine. My recollection is the oil flows along the oil galley on the passenger side of that engine to the rocker feed tube. I may be wrong but I do not think oil to the rockers is thru a cam bearing. Is there possibly part of the rocker feed D ring seal wedged in the oil galley? Was the engine hot tanked and the oil galleys thoroughly brushed?
Thanks for the reply. What's been done to the engine: total rebuild at a local machine shop. It was hot tanked and new pistons, rods & bearings. Rebuilt head. All rebuilt/new accessories. I've not yet even sent fuel into the engine or turned it over with the starter. As a big dose of precaution I wanted to prime the whole thing with oil. I'm making the big assumption that with some pressure for 20-30 seconds, oil should make it all the way up to the rocker by spinning the pump.
If the there is an oil passage blocked, I'd rather not start cranking on it.
Thanks Ross, I should have described that the tube does install all the way down into the block and attach into the rocker, so probably not the head gasket. Before installing, we verified the tube itself is unobstructed. I looked down the hole while spinning the pump, but saw no sign of oil down there at all. I guess tomorrow I'll hold it on for an extended time and see if I was just not patient enough.
My money is on the machine shop not installing the cam bearings properly. I've seen this happen recently on a 215 and this was the result. The oil supply for the top end must follow around one of the cam bearings from one side of the journal to the other. If the bearing isn't indexed correctly to align the holes in the bearing with the galleys in the journals, the oil won't make the trip up top.
2nd the cam bearing! That was me! So go to your machine shop and beat the guy who can't line up holes. You've gotta pull the timing cover, yank the cam and push that bearing out and do it again.
My money is on the machine shop not installing the cam bearings properly. I've seen this happen recently on a 215 and this was the result. The oil supply for the top end must follow around one of the cam bearings from one side of the journal to the other. If the bearing isn't indexed correctly to align the holes in the bearing with the galleys in the journals, the oil won't make the trip up top.
Cam bearing installation was my first thoughts as well but then from memory, I believe the oil to the rockers is direct from the right side oil galley in the block.
Not to doubt what you are saying but in the interest of diagnosing the OP's problem, can you verify the oil actually runs thru a cam bearing?
I am going from memory, only. Thanks
Thanks for the quick replies and it always feels reassuring when a problem can be diagnosed. Before I talk the machine shop in question, I always want to rule myself out of the equation (what we sometimes call USER ERROR). If the oil does come through the cam bearing, is my test a valid one? In other words, should standard oil pressure alone from spinnign the pump get oil up to the head or do I need to be spinning that bearing (i.e. cranking the engine) at the same time?
I'm in a chicken & egg spot. The engine is brand new and I've yet to affect it, I'm in check/doublecheck mode. I'd hate to cause a stir with the shop if spinning the oil pump alone isn't enough to move oil.
Cam bearing installation was my first thoughts as well but then from memory, I believe the oil to the rockers is direct from the right side oil galley in the block.
Not to doubt what you are saying but in the interest of diagnosing the OP's problem, can you verify the oil actually runs thru a cam bearing?
I am going from memory, only. Thanks
I answered "in the interest of diagnosing the OP's problem". I watched while Jordan (fifty-two_f1) battled this exact same issue on a 215 he built about a year or so ago. The problem was one of the cam bearings was not installed correctly. It shouldn't matter if the camshaft is rotating or not. There should be oil to the top end with 50 PSI on the system if the lines are clear and the galley ports aren't blocked by a misinstalled bearing.
I answered "in the interest of diagnosing the OP's problem". I watched while Jordan (fifty-two_f1) battled this exact same issue on a 215 he built about a year or so ago. The problem was one of the cam bearings was not installed correctly. It shouldn't matter if the camshaft is rotating or not. There should be oil to the top end with 50 PSI on the system if the lines are clear and the galley ports aren't blocked by a misinstalled bearing.
Thank you for correcting my errant memory. To the OP, please disregard my ramblings. I shall withdraw comments and yield to the more informed.
To the OP, please keep us informed of the resolve.
If the oil does come through the cam bearing, is my test a valid one? In other words, should standard oil pressure alone from spinnign the pump get oil up to the head or do I need to be spinning that bearing (i.e. cranking the engine) at the same time?
John
If the oil is routed thru the cam bearing, the cam bearing should have a hole that aligns with the block galley and a groove that would carry the oil around thru the bearing and to the galley up to the rocker. If all is working, the position of the cam should not matter.
Is the cam journal a grooved journal or a cross drilled. It matters if it's a cross drilled as to where the holes in the cam are in relationship to the bearing holes
also small block Chevy will not oil one side without a dummy distributor as the oil passes around the distributor housing.
Im not familiar with the 215 so none of this may be of any help
Not trying to be a smart guy as I know nothing about a 215 oil routes but I would talk to the shop. Tell them what you have done and what possible reasons there is no oil flowing. Tell them exactly what you have tried and that this is for their protection also. Hopefully they have given you some assurance they know what they are doing and maybe a short guarantee on their work. Anyone can make an error on something like this and it is easier to fix now than after you blow it up. Again not trying to step on toes or say anyone is wrong but it looks like there is still some question.
Or.... isn't there a difference between 215 and 223 cams?
215 Cam Bearings
A 215 cam would have to have one journal with a circumferential slot to accommodate passing oil through. I'm hazy (most of the time) but didn't the 223 change its oil routing to eliminate the rocker oiling problem of the 215 and Y-blocks? Maybe you have a 223 cam? Seems to me I've read something, somewhere about this before but, as is with a lot of things, I've been wrng before. :-) The info may have only pertained to Y-blocks? Then again, a sloppy install may have aligned the one hole but missed aligning the other hole...
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