All,

Recently we purchased a 2004 Expedition for a secondary vehicle. It is covered by a short warranty and we have a issue I am trying to get resolved by the dealer before the warranty runs out. I will attempt to keep this long story short but...no promises

While driving the vehicle at any speed between ~20-70mph there is a "whine" type sound. How I initially described it to the dealership was similar to if you were driving in 4lo and 1st gear.

While going down the road if you bump the trans into neutral the noise goes away. Put it back in gear the sound is there.

I wrote a description of the problem and verbally told the service mgr when I dropped it off yesterday. Today they called me with a diagnosis of "tire noise".

I disagree with their diagnosis and asked them to drive it again. It has Michelin tires that are in very good condition on it. Of note, I have had jeeps with mud tires and didn't sound anything like this. Nor any other vehicle in the past 24 years I have been driving had tires that made this alledged noise.

My question to the forum is:

1. What do you think of that diagnosis?
2. Have you ever had tires that sounded like "gears" or "bearing failure"?
3. Can anyone point me in the direction of info regarding the #9 bearing in the transmission?
4. Can anyone point me in the direction of rear axle bearing issues?

I did ask them to look at a TSB, I think it was 5-23-3 for the rear axle.


Thanks for any info you can provide!

 

The whine is caused by one of two things. It's either the power steering pump or the transmission input shaft. Have the fluids been checked for each?

 

Hello,

I don't believe it to be power steering pump. It does not make any noise while stationary or change at all while in motion and turning the steering wheel.

I will search for info on the input shaft.

I checked the trans fluid the day I bought it, it is full and looks new.

Possible to be pinion bearing?

ETA: The noise seems to go away once you are in overdrive on the highway, until the trans downshifts to go up a hill or pass etc.



Thanks

 

From what you are saying, it sounds like the noise is tied to engine speed and not wheel speed. That eliminates the tranny output, the rear axle, and the wheel bearings/hubs. If you want to force the dealer's hand, I suggest you take it to a tranny shop and get an official written diagnosis/estimate. Once you have it in writing from such a shop and you're not just giving your opinion, they are more likely to do something about it. Plus if you end up in court you have documentation dated prior to the expiration of the warranty. Often these dealers just try to stall until the warranty runs out and they're off the hook, free and clear.

 

I'm going to the dealership tuesday, my next day off to take them for a ride in it and point out the noise.

If they stick with tire noise I am going to take it to other shops. Then the fight will begin.

 

All you have to do is shift into neutral and take your foot off the gas when the noise starts. If it's a tire noise then the noise will continue, if the noise stops then it cannot be a tire noise.

 

Thats what I told them over the phone. The service manager didn't have a response.....

Since it doesn't make the noise while stationary, only when going down the road at ~20-70MPH and increases as you accelerate yet stops when you lift off the accelerator I thinking something in the transmission or rear axle.

I've been reading more about pinion bearings.

 

I went down and took them for a ride in it.

They diagnosed it now as a bearing in the transmission.

A big fight ensued about fixing it under warrany, their position was that the trans hasn't failed, it's just making noise. They did not want to touch it under warrany. I argued that "something" has failed or it wouldn't be making noise.

They offered to pay half of the price to fix it, about $1300 if it's a complete rebuild.



Another issue popped up last night.

While driving up a slight hill at approx 40 mph I let off the gas and shifted into neutral. The engine stalled. I coasted into a parking lot. It took a few tried but the engine did start, ran rough briefly and I drove It home.


Here is what the service mgr said:

It's a possibility that the pcm lost its continuous memory after we cleaned the throttle plate this happens some times . Also possibility of the driver module for the fuel to cause this issue......

 

For the tranny issue, the bad bearing is a failure like you said, it is also a sign of impending doom for the tranny. I would not let them off the hook by paying half of the repairs for a vehicle YOU JUST BOUGHT WITH A WARRANTY. Hint that you'll be contacting your state's Attorney General as well as seeing them in court if they keep trying to dodge their responsibility. To me it sounds like they never paid the warranty premium and will now get stuck with the repair bill.

As to the stalling issue, I too would be looking at the fuel pump driver, the fuel pump, or an old dirty fuel filter.

 

I'm not finished with the fight about the trans. I want to get a second diagnosis from another shop. Remember, these are the guys who said it was tire noise......

What is involved with the fuel pump driver?



Thanks for all of your help!

 

Not sure if the '04 has the same Fuel pump driver module as the '05, but if it has it then there's a bracket on the frame beam behind the driver side rear wheel, you can see about half of it without removing the inner plastic splash guard. It's easy to replace, about 100-150 dollars for the part

 

I read and saw pics online about some module..thingamabob...that is made with aluminum housing. After years of exposure the back, where it mounts to the vehicle corrodes and shorts out. It was near the rear of the vehicle too.

Are we maybe talking about the same thing?

 

From what I can find online my 04 doesn't have the module.

 

Would a vacuum leak cause the stalling problem? I've read about some elbow on the back of the intake deteriorates and causes a leak.

 

Only if it were a large sudden leak, such as when you pull off the brake booster hose. I ruled out both a vacuum leak and the IAC valve because the engine not only stalled but would not restart right away. Neither the vacuum leak nor the IAC valve would prevent starting.