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bought the truck from a guy who said he thought it had a bad U Joint on the front passenger side and was making noise when 4x4 was engaged. He removed the front drive shaft to supposedly prevent his son from using 4x4 and to prevent further damage (suspicious). I am trying to diagnose what the problem is at this point and here is what I have found:
-upon inspecting the front passenger side U Joint, there seems to be play in the axel, but not rotational as a bad U Joint might indicate, but rather side to side play, I'd say about 1/2 inch.
-with the hubs unlocked, I can rotate the front axel yoke freely. the drivers side axel rotates smoth and steady with each rotation of the yoke, but the passenger side is intermittent, kind of like there is a stripped gear?
-with the hubs unlocked, I can spin both axels freely, and watch the yoke turn in response.
-with the hubs locked, both sides seem to be engaged and locked
Any ideas what it might be or next steps to further diagnose?
bought the truck from a guy who said he thought it had a bad U Joint on the front passenger side and was making noise when 4x4 was engaged. He removed the front drive shaft to supposedly prevent his son from using 4x4 and to prevent further damage (suspicious). I am trying to diagnose what the problem is at this point and here is what I have found:
-upon inspecting the front passenger side U Joint, there seems to be play in the axel, but not rotational as a bad U Joint might indicate, but rather side to side play, I'd say about 1/2 inch.
-with the hubs unlocked, I can rotate the front axel yoke freely. the drivers side axel rotates smoth and steady with each rotation of the yoke, but the passenger side is intermittent, kind of like there is a stripped gear?
-with the hubs unlocked, I can spin both axels freely, and watch the yoke turn in response.
-with the hubs locked, both sides seem to be engaged and locked
Any ideas what it might be or next steps to further diagnose?
Sounds like you may have a bad spindle bearing. there should not be that much side to side play.
Sounds like .... if I'm reading it right ..... spindle bearing which is a set of needles that are in a race and go inside the spindle and hold the outer axle centered in the spindle. I have the socket but I don't have the socket number. I've had it an awful long time. If you google "spindle nut socket '78 F150 4x4" you'll find them.
yea, not sure I am describing the play correctly so here is an illustration.
When I grab the axel it moves left to right about 1/2 inch. There is no play in the U joint so its in/out on the spindle side and the axel side. i.e. moves as an assembly, if that makes sense.
X3 on the his reason to pull the axle shaft and NOT just replace the u joint and just put it all back together is very fishy...
(Axial play) ='s in and out play/movement, (radial play) ='s round and round or out of round play/movement.
1/2" axial play in the stub shaft seems to be to much IMO. Does it have the small snap ring on the end of the axle stub shaft installed and still have that play?
D44? PDF Spicer manual for you. PM me a reg email and I can send you another bigger PDF Spicer manual, it is to big to load as an attachment on here.
It is Axial play for sure, I dont feel any radial play. Seems to me that a bad spindle needle bearing would produce radial play not axial, correct? I will check for the snap ring on the end of the stub shaft.
Any ideas why the axel would be rotating intermittently when I spin front axel input yoke? could be that the axel is not pushed in all the way and engaged?
Sounds like you have it narrowed down relatively well, though you can't be sure until you open it up. I personally would regasket and rebearing the whole thing. You never know how long he ran it like that, or what. With new ball joints, bearings, gaskets, etc, it would give you a much better sense of security when in 4x4. It all depends on how far you wanna go with it though.
OK .... that's different, stub axle sliding in and out of spindle .... "end play".
Should be very little in / out movement, the idea being you want to keep the U-joint centered between the upper and lower ball joint along the steering axes.
Pop the outer cap off and see if the snap ring is in place on end of stub?
I am about 99.44% sure beyond any doubt that there's not enough room for the correct parts to be assembled (correct axle with correct housing, etc) and the axle not be engaged with the axle gear in the differential.
-with the hubs unlocked, I can rotate the front axel yoke freely. the drivers side axel rotates smoth and steady with each rotation of the yoke, but the passenger side is intermittent, kind of like there is a stripped gear?
-with the hubs unlocked, I can spin both axels freely, and watch the yoke turn in response.
-with the hubs locked, both sides seem to be engaged and locked
So ....
1 .... by turning the yoke, the pass side axle does not respond smoothly ....
2 .... but when you turn the same axle the yoke does respond smoothly ....
3 .... and when the hub is locked and wheel turned, yoke turns smoothly?
Is there any chance that when you observed #1 with hubs unlocked that the lost motion you observed in that right side axle wasn't actually made by the left side axle when you were watching the right ??? Spider gears will allow that to happen.
Or you may have a few missing teeth laying in the bottom of the front differential housing.
So, I finally had some time to do some inspections.
Upon removing the passenger side hub selector, I see that the small snap ring is installed on the end of the stub shaft. Visual inspection of the inner hub workings reveal that the entire inner hub assembly is moving in concert with the axial play. I stated 1/2" above which was slightly over stated, its actually somewhere between 1/4"-1/2". Could there be a failed or missing component in the hub causing this?
I removed the differential cover to inspect the gears and everything looks good inside. no chipped teeth, no bearing play, no metal shavings, nice clean gear oil. When I rotate the yoke with the hubs unlocked I see the ring gear turning smoothly and engaging the driver's side spider gear. the passenger side does not engage by simply turning the yoke slowly, but spins freely when I turn the gear by hand, I am assuming this is normal operation?
So aside from the hub/axel play question above, is there anything else I should inspect before I put the cover back on? Also, what do you guys recommend for the cover gasket? There was a paper gasket on there, maybe factory, but I think alot of guys just run RTV there?
Yes correct socket and it is 1/2 drive, so a 1/2 breaker bar and 1/2 drive ft lb torque wrench is needed come reinstall time...In most auto parts stores they loan or rent this tool, but that is state side, so not sure across the big pond.
That axial play seems about right...more like 1/4-3/8 IMO.
Not sure there is anything wrong...except a lot of times guys break front diffs and it is cheaper to get a junkyard one. Then afterward they realize the gear ratios are different they just remove the front driveshaft to keep themselves from accidentally using the 4wd. I would recommend counting ring and pinion teeth to confirm the gear ratio before sealing the cover back up.
There may also be a problem in the T case....won't know until you try it.
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