Well.....reed1951 gave me warning that we'd have trouble. And this particular problem is like a broken record in all kinds of forums (including FTE) all over the internet. Mine is a Chassis Engineering MII crossmember and kit. 302 engine. I went ahead and bought that dual sump oil pan conversion and screwed it in place last night with a few bolts. (my engine is a late 60's model with an original front sump). I dropped it and the transmission into the frame for a test fit. And, as per usual, the front of the dual sump oil pan easily clears the crossmember but hits the manual rack. So, as I see it, I've got 4 options: 1) shim the bottom of the block at the mounting plate with round washers and probably use a tad longer bolt into the block, 2) modify the oil pan with a hammer and dolly or go all out and cut and weld it like people have done in the past or 3) Does anybody make a thicker rubber "biscuit" mount for that engine that can be swapped out? or 4) Is there a true aftermarket oil pan out there that has been modified to fix this problem? (The chances of me finding a ?late 70's bronco oil pan or that Econoline van pan in a scrapyard are about nill to none around here.)

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Since the front sump is there strictly to provide room for the oil pump, it's doubtful you'll be able to cut it up much for any meaningful gain. You may be able to clearance the front of the rear sump to fit around the crossmember and move the engine forward. Of course, modifying the motor mounts would probably be the easiest fix, but it's unknown from your writing if that would cause any trans/tunnel fitment issues. Perhaps the right call would be to Chassis Engineering for a pan recommendation, since I put the blame there for not building a part that fits with existing, matching parts for ease of assembly. One would have thought that info would be provided on their website or instructions there, so we wouldn't have these kind of surprises. Keep us posted on what you find.

 

MD

I had the same problem locating a midsump pan... I found what I needed here

Bishop International, Inc.: contact us

you might give them a call and ask about the Bronco rear sump


I would think you'd want more than a washer thickness of clearance... that engine is gonna rock some with torque


john

 

Hey Doc,
Get some pics of that on here if ya can. I just dealt with an oil pan problem myself. i bought a pan thru autozone, its made by spectra
Spectra - Oil Pans

I only spent a total of $100. that was the pan/new pickup tube. its not polished aluminum but its not a crusty POS from the salvage yard either.

Just knowing that you are a doctor, lends the suggestion that you might be able to afford a $100 for a new pan!

 

The point of contact is on the very front of the front sump and the bottom of the plug itself, not really even on the bottom "point" of that pan. So moving the engine forward will make the problem worse. If I move it forward in an attempt to allow the spot between the 2 sumps to "straddle" the crossmember, I don't think there's enough room at all to clear both the crossmember and the rack. Plus that would probably be like an approximate 6 or 8 inch forward relocation and then I'd be looking at some big time radiator problems. And the motor mounts would have to come from somewhere else other than the crossmember itself. Here's an ebay pic of this crossmember and the mounts.



We've both called Chassis Engineering. It's one of those "oh yeah, you might want to....." type things. They immediately start telling me that I very well may need to shim the engine up, etc. When reed asked about an oil pan recc., they offered to send some information about the subject with some various OLD model oil pans that "supposedly work". But can they provide me with the right pan or point me to a supplier that has one with enough clearance?--no. Here's the thing that burns my tail about this (and you touched upon it). CE (and any other company that has this issue with the 302) needs to get on the ball and update their catalog and website with the warning info about this. I have a strictly "stock" application of this. No modifications. With as much money as we pay for these things, we ought to be able to be given a very thorough set of instructions, and this thing needs to be a complete bolt-up design without these problems (I'm dreaming). If they need to modify their factory-installed motor mounts for strictly the 302, then so be it. They need to do it. But, again, I don't think this is unique to Chassis Engineering. These companies making these things need to get it right out of the factory. Their customers don't need to have to piece together a bunch of shims or plow through 10 junk yards looking for an oil pan off an E-series van from the 70's, etc.

I'll update you guys on what I finally figure out. I'm guessing I'll be laying a bunch of washers on the top of that plate and shimming the engine upwards with a longer engine mount bolt. If that's not enough, I'd say I'll be flattening out the front end of the oil pan some.

 

Doc,

There's a thread started by Gibby55 with some pan and clearance information. I posted a couple of pics there. I did put spacers between the engine mounts and the block to get an extra 1/2 inch of clearance on the crossmember and steering rack.

Dan

 

Hold your horses there man. I might be a doctor, but I'm just a country doc out in the sticks. Definitely not a rich brain surgeon. Plus, a hundred dollars is a hundred dollars.

Thanks for the reccommendations, I called both of those places. They both recognized the problem, but neither had anything to offer other than a completely stock pan.

I'll try to throw a picture on here if I can of the contact point. It's not a catastrophic problem. It's just more irritating than anything else.

 

Ok Doc! LOL that got your attention! just messin with ya...yeah as far as pics, if ya had a pic of the engine sitting in there so we can see the actual interference, at least it would help me, but maybe others here have that setup. i just asked for pics because I don't have that front suspension.
I agree with you on the frustration! seems like when you spend a premium price for stuff there ought to be some application support. i mean if you were using some out-of-the-ordinary engine, but its a 302! it ought to fit that! (Im waiting for the small block, rear distributor fellas to jump in!)
Im gonna follow this one, i wanna see a pic when ya get a chance!

Now its time for me to get off here and go deal with my own freakin hurdles...

 

i was looking at that suspension/x-member, if you need to raise it, the mount biscuits look somewhat like the jag crumpets that I have,they look taller than yours, i can measure them if you think it might work for ya...

 

Yeah that would be great! Get me a measurement sometime when it's convenient. Would need the diameter of the bottom as well as the height. Otherwise, I'm just gonna shim the mount holes on the block above that plate. Or buy one of these......

 

Shane

I know washers sound easy... but I think if I were shimming, I'd cut some 1/4" plate shims and drill them to match the block holes. I wouldn't trust washers... do you have the room at the firewall/trans to raise it without interference there
john

 

You're exactly right. Thanks. reed1951 and I were discussing this last night. We should definitely go that route as compared to a stack of washers. My cab is laying there. I need to lift it back on my frame (tractors come in handy sometimes) and check it out with the spacers in place. The thing that worries me is the fact that I have a big ole C6 bolted on there.

 

Hey Doc, those biscuit mounts look a lot like stock 48 - 52 Flat V8 mounts... have you compared? The stockers may be a bit taller.

PS -- are those plates that go from the biscuit to the block reinforced on the underside? That looks pretty flimsy, I'd expect they'll crack at the holes on the block end after a while.

 

Doc,

Depending on the angle of your engine...you can also consider lowering the tailshaft of the transmission a little. rocking it back will raise the front of the engine.

The other part is...look at the contact area of the engine mount to the block. It isn't any bigger than a washer (at each of the bolts). You can use washers to mock up the engine position, and make (or buy) some short bushings after you determine how much you need to lift it. Our local Ace Hardware has a good selection of bushings in different lengths. Keep in mind that engine mounts tend to sag a little as they age...you might see 3/8" drop in the final engine position after everything settles in.

Dan

 

I hadn't thought to look at the stock mounts. Yet another possibility. As far as those plates, they're 3/8" thick, and there is nothing under them for reinforcement. I've looked at those a hundred times and worried about that very thing. But apparently no failures (....yet).

You're right about using the washers as a mockup to see how big of a spacer one would need.

As far as the transmission, I pretty much had the tailshaft laying really low last night on the jack before I lifted it onto the crossmember. When it was pretty low to the ground, I could have probably slipped 2 or 3 poker cards between the pan and the rack. When I lifted it into place, they were in total contact. So maybe that gives you guys an idea of how much I need to shim. One advantage I have with this truck is I can remember pretty much exactly where the tranny was sitting before I tore it down. And so far it seems to be falling back into about the same exact spot. Which hopefully means I won't have a firewall issue.