Backing up trailers - length vs maneuverability
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More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: W. Wisc
Backing up trailers - length vs maneuverability
So here's the deal. I haven't towed much. With my truck I have mostly hauled stuff in the bed. But I now have a tractor parked on a 16' dual axle trailer. Tow vehicle is the F250 in my sig. Both me and a friend (he has a LOT of experience with trailers) feel this combo is very difficult to back up. It's very twitchy and tends to be very sensitive to the slightest motion off axis.
I'm thinking, from what little I know that there is a ratio that is at play here. I bet it is the distance from the steering axle (front axle of truck) to the hitch pin as the first part. The second part it the distance from the hitch pin to the axle (or in this case, maybe mid point of the axles?). If the first part is larger than the 2nd, you are in trouble backing up as the trailer will turn much farther for any move of the truck. If it is reversed, you are in better shape as the trailer moves less than your truck's input.
But is there some "golden ratio" that is wehre you want to be for backing up ability? And do I have the right points here to determine that (front truck axle to ball, ball to center of trailer axles)?
Curious minds...
Thanks,
Dave
I'm thinking, from what little I know that there is a ratio that is at play here. I bet it is the distance from the steering axle (front axle of truck) to the hitch pin as the first part. The second part it the distance from the hitch pin to the axle (or in this case, maybe mid point of the axles?). If the first part is larger than the 2nd, you are in trouble backing up as the trailer will turn much farther for any move of the truck. If it is reversed, you are in better shape as the trailer moves less than your truck's input.
But is there some "golden ratio" that is wehre you want to be for backing up ability? And do I have the right points here to determine that (front truck axle to ball, ball to center of trailer axles)?
Curious minds...
Thanks,
Dave
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
there is no "golden ratio", it is all about the driver.
i know over the road drivers that can not back into a loading dock, and i have seen drivers that can place a towed air compressor wherever you want it in one shot that can not back up a landscaper trailer with the same truck.
the longer the trailer and shorter the tow vehicle, the easier it will be to back up.
a 4 dr 8 ft bed truck with an air compressor on the back will be next to impossible to back up.
a 2 dr 6 ft bed truck with a 45 ft 5th wheel trailer can be placed with your eyes closed.
i know over the road drivers that can not back into a loading dock, and i have seen drivers that can place a towed air compressor wherever you want it in one shot that can not back up a landscaper trailer with the same truck.
the longer the trailer and shorter the tow vehicle, the easier it will be to back up.
a 4 dr 8 ft bed truck with an air compressor on the back will be next to impossible to back up.
a 2 dr 6 ft bed truck with a 45 ft 5th wheel trailer can be placed with your eyes closed.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,873
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From: Atlanta GA
The other problem is wheel placement on the trailer. From measuring dual axle trailers, the center point of dual wheels is usually 5/8 of the bed length from the front. The closer the wheels are to the front, the harder it is to back up. The shorter the wheel base on the tow vehicle, the easier it is to back up on most trailers for me.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Frederick, MD
Your making it harder than it really is.
Just go practice some...the longer the trailer that more room you need and the sooner you need to start your turn that's about it.
Don't jack knife it!
Just go practice some...the longer the trailer that more room you need and the sooner you need to start your turn that's about it.
Don't jack knife it!
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,339
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From: Smithers, BC, Canada
What Senix said!
It takes time to get used to any particular trailer, and some are harder then others, but just take it slow and don't forget to keep an eye on the front end of the truck
I have the same wheel base as you and can back up a little 12' utility trailer without too much dificulty, my horse trailer (longer wheel base then your trailer) is less sensitive and therefor easier to back up though.
The biggest problems I have, is overcorrecting and not straightening my wheels quick anough.
When I first bought my horse trailer, I backed it up my 200 yard long driveway a few times and then backed it in a circle around a lamp standard in a parking lot. Now I can back it through a right angle and into the shed with few problems.
It takes time to get used to any particular trailer, and some are harder then others, but just take it slow and don't forget to keep an eye on the front end of the truck
I have the same wheel base as you and can back up a little 12' utility trailer without too much dificulty, my horse trailer (longer wheel base then your trailer) is less sensitive and therefor easier to back up though.
The biggest problems I have, is overcorrecting and not straightening my wheels quick anough.
When I first bought my horse trailer, I backed it up my 200 yard long driveway a few times and then backed it in a circle around a lamp standard in a parking lot. Now I can back it through a right angle and into the shed with few problems.
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More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: W. Wisc
there is no "golden ratio", it is all about the driver.
i know over the road drivers that can not back into a loading dock, and i have seen drivers that can place a towed air compressor wherever you want it in one shot that can not back up a landscaper trailer with the same truck.
the longer the trailer and shorter the tow vehicle, the easier it will be to back up.
a 4 dr 8 ft bed truck with an air compressor on the back will be next to impossible to back up.
a 2 dr 6 ft bed truck with a 45 ft 5th wheel trailer can be placed with your eyes closed.
i know over the road drivers that can not back into a loading dock, and i have seen drivers that can place a towed air compressor wherever you want it in one shot that can not back up a landscaper trailer with the same truck.
the longer the trailer and shorter the tow vehicle, the easier it will be to back up.
a 4 dr 8 ft bed truck with an air compressor on the back will be next to impossible to back up.
a 2 dr 6 ft bed truck with a 45 ft 5th wheel trailer can be placed with your eyes closed.
As you can see from the pics, the tractor barely fits on the trailer. It is secure and stable, but there is not much room to get it on and play with the positioning to ensure good tongue weight distribution, etc. It seems OK for now, but there is no room to grow. If I add any new implements to the tractor (that's a given...), I won't be able to fit it on the trailer. So my question is really about looking at a new trailer. If I'm going to get a longer one, is there a trailer hitch-axle distance I should be looking for to make it easier handling? I figure someone has worked out that if the 2 distances I noted are some ratio or higher it will back up easy, and if it is below some number, you are hosed. Something like that. I get that a longer trailer is generally easier (except requiring more room, as Senix noted), but is there some point if you are above it, that makes things go a lot better?
And yes, I will find some time and a parking lot to practice in...
Thanks,
Dave
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 234
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From: Saskatchewan
My truck is the same setup as yours. I pull an 18' trailer and it backs up like a dream. I have a short little garbage trailer and its a challenge to back up. The trucks long wheelbase can't steer quick enough to stay ahead of the trailer.
If a little practice won't help on your 16'; I know an 18' should work for you.
If a little practice won't help on your 16'; I know an 18' should work for you.
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Senior User
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From: Alaska
I think I know
I put bright decals on my fender wells to help see the fenders of the trailer earlier.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,551
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From: Hickory, North Carolina
If it were me. I would go pintle hitch and get a dump trailer and put corner tie downs in the trailer bed. most come with ramps along with the gate/ spreader door and you will be much more versatile. The pintle is a little clunky and times but not bad. you can also lock the bed down so you take the worries of it tilting on you. hint. when backing at night just run your parking lights. the brightness of the headlights messes with your vision. you can also drag the brake to give you more light if you need it.
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More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: W. Wisc
Good tip on the parking lights. Makes sense. Thanks!
I don't think a dump trailer is anywhere near in the budget. Even used ones are over $3k around here on CL. Mostly over $4-5k there... New is waaay out.
-Dave
I don't think a dump trailer is anywhere near in the budget. Even used ones are over $3k around here on CL. Mostly over $4-5k there... New is waaay out.
-Dave
Cranky Old Guy
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,562
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From: Raphine, Virginia
Won't help with your backing up, but I believe you would be better pulling the trctor on instead of backing it on. Putting the engine more toward the tongue and rear axle more on the trailer axle's. Should give you a little more room too. Watch for other tractors being trailered, usually all pulled on and bucket resting on a support in the front.
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More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: W. Wisc
As best I can tell this is the only way to load the tractor onto this trailer that keeps the load balanced with decent tongue weighting. The rear tractor wheels would be well behind the axles, and they are filled with liquid ballast (like 400 lbs each, IIRC). The tongue would be pretty light.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,391
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From: NorCal
Like others have said, there is no magic truck/trailer length ratio that is the best. It is all about practicing with your setup.
The longer the trailer, the easier it is to back without it jack-knifing on you.
I have some Jet Skis on a 10' trailer, try backing that down a long boatramp using a lifted crewcab
The longer the trailer, the easier it is to back without it jack-knifing on you.
I have some Jet Skis on a 10' trailer, try backing that down a long boatramp using a lifted crewcab
