Mod Expedition for heavy duty towing
#16
04-08-2008, 09:58 PM
ok, let me ask this line of questioning another way. Assume a dealer had a used 2007 Expedition without the 536 HD towing package. I need the HD Trailer tow package. There are many (most?) for sale that do not have the HD Tow package. I know factory installed is preferable but can a dealer technically add the equivalent of the HD tow package and all its components with after market parts (Ford or otherwise)? Would that be an acceptable option? Comments? (Ignore the cost aspect, this is a question about "doability by a dealer's service department" and "acceptability in lieu of factory installed package".)
#17
04-09-2008, 07:36 AM
One thing that no one I see on here has installed that I always add to my personal trailer towers are oil coolers. I run a trans/oil cooler combo cooler with a electric fan on it. This makes a HUGE difference in engine temps. If you can keep the oil cool then you can keep the coolant and everything else cool as well. Oil also lasts longer when it's kept at a stable temp just like trans fluid. I usually remove the factory trans cooler and make a bracket for the new cooler where the old cooler was and add in the 12volt wiring. I can tell you that on the last 2 trucks (f-150 and silverado 1500 the oil cooler makes the truck run much cooler and smoother).
#18
04-09-2008, 08:59 PM
One thing that no one I see on here has installed that I always add to my personal trailer towers are oil coolers. I run a trans/oil cooler combo cooler with a electric fan on it. This makes a HUGE difference in engine temps. If you can keep the oil cool then you can keep the coolant and everything else cool as well. Oil also lasts longer when it's kept at a stable temp just like trans fluid. I usually remove the factory trans cooler and make a bracket for the new cooler where the old cooler was and add in the 12volt wiring. I can tell you that on the last 2 trucks (f-150 and silverado 1500 the oil cooler makes the truck run much cooler and smoother).
Ford, good enough for me...... BTW - none of my previous tow vehicles had oil coolers but then again, noe of them could tow 9k...
#20
04-10-2008, 06:17 PM
What was the GCVW? I can honistly say I see hotter temps down here in FL pulling boats in the summertime then I did pulling a boat up silding hill in MD going to deep creek(6% grade). It all depends, If I tow empty my truck stays the same temp, 16K GCVW and it's a whole different ball game. Ford needs to really make a 6 speed auto like GMs with a complete manual control. This would work great for towing and off road.
#21
04-11-2008, 05:59 AM
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I'd estimate a GCVW roughly 12,000 pounds as the trailer weighs a six pack under 5000 and we had passengers and a "bunch" of camping gear in the back. This truck has the HD towing package with the larger radiator. 9000 pounds max towing capacity for a 5000 pound trailer is something I like. GCVWR for my Expedition is 15,000 pounds so I assume you're pulling with something else?
The temperature graphs are all pretty much alike when I'm towing and only a couple of degrees lower when not leading me to believe the engine thermostat is keeping them in this range. We're not scheduled to tow in that region again until Labor Day, but I'll try to put the data grabber in the truck in a month when I take the truck back to Gettysburg to back haul my daughter's stuff from college for the summer.
From the times shown the graph is eastbound PA turnpike from Midway Plaza up and over Sidling Hill on the TP to Blue Mountain and then down PA997 to Gettysburg.
-- Chuck
The temperature graphs are all pretty much alike when I'm towing and only a couple of degrees lower when not leading me to believe the engine thermostat is keeping them in this range. We're not scheduled to tow in that region again until Labor Day, but I'll try to put the data grabber in the truck in a month when I take the truck back to Gettysburg to back haul my daughter's stuff from college for the summer.
From the times shown the graph is eastbound PA turnpike from Midway Plaza up and over Sidling Hill on the TP to Blue Mountain and then down PA997 to Gettysburg.
-- Chuck
#22
04-11-2008, 06:38 PM
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why don't you just look at a '04-'05 Excursion instead of either getting a more expensive Expedition HD or setting it up yourself..That way if you really need a SUV,you won't have to upgrade if you get a different trailer...I have gone from a '94 Jeep Cherokee sport with an 8' Starcraft pop/up then a 14' Coachman P/U,then to a Yukon, moved up to 27X Wilderness TT and then a '98 3/4 Suburban and then we bought our '05 Cougar 304BHS and quite happy with my '01 "X" PSD pulling it.. This was all done over a 12 year period,but some people change trailers and rigs more than I did..Don't go light on your tow vehicle...Don't listen to the salesman when he says "it'll tow anything you put behind it.." In the towing business,bigger really is better for the tv.Just saw a Nissan Titan CC with a 32' toy hauler behind it sitting in a rest area above Turtle Bay at Shasta Lake on I-5 last week with a big pool of tranny oil under it as the guy had overloaded the Titan and pulled the tranny right out of it..His comment was,"he told me I wouldn't have any trouble pulling it with this set-up" In the meantime,his wife and three kids were sitting in the trailer waiting for a tow truck.. I can just hear the service manager now asking him," you were pulling what?? I don't think you're warranty is gonna cover that"
#23
04-11-2008, 07:23 PM
I'd estimate a GCVW roughly 12,000 pounds as the trailer weighs a six pack under 5000 and we had passengers and a "bunch" of camping gear in the back. This truck has the HD towing package with the larger radiator. 9000 pounds max towing capacity for a 5000 pound trailer is something I like. GCVWR for my Expedition is 15,000 pounds so I assume you're pulling with something else?
The temperature graphs are all pretty much alike when I'm towing and only a couple of degrees lower when not leading me to believe the engine thermostat is keeping them in this range. We're not scheduled to tow in that region again until Labor Day, but I'll try to put the data grabber in the truck in a month when I take the truck back to Gettysburg to back haul my daughter's stuff from college for the summer.
From the times shown the graph is eastbound PA turnpike from Midway Plaza up and over Sidling Hill on the TP to Blue Mountain and then down PA997 to Gettysburg.-- Chuck
The temperature graphs are all pretty much alike when I'm towing and only a couple of degrees lower when not leading me to believe the engine thermostat is keeping them in this range. We're not scheduled to tow in that region again until Labor Day, but I'll try to put the data grabber in the truck in a month when I take the truck back to Gettysburg to back haul my daughter's stuff from college for the summer.
From the times shown the graph is eastbound PA turnpike from Midway Plaza up and over Sidling Hill on the TP to Blue Mountain and then down PA997 to Gettysburg.-- Chuck
I'm towing w/ a 08 Expedition EL. I tow a TK12 equipment trailer w/ misc stuff on it (buckets, rakes, forks), i've never really figured out the weight but I'm sure i've hit 20K lbs before. The truck weights in at 6700 lbs w/ me and my "stuff", the trailer is 2700 lbs and I've had a two 4K lb buckets on it that to me is 17K, i've had some round hay bales before that really tested the truck.
I can tell you one reason that your truck stays so cool is the trailer, it's not much higher then the truck and it isn't a widebody (102" wide). That makes a HUGE difference but it's a nice looking rig.
#25
04-21-2008, 11:24 PM
Ok - I will chime in - since I just upgraded. (BTW 10 min is quite an exaggeration!)
First of all - in 07 the ratio is 3:73 - so upgrade here is not needed
I had the larger Trans cooler and Radiator installed by the dealer - sorta warranty...
To elaborate on what was posted earlier - The expys have partial wiring for a 7 wire harness under the hood. The fuse box at the Rad. houses the HD relay and fuse for the additional power required to charge trailer batteries - but they are empty. If you want to do this correctly, you need to run a large ga wire to the hitch obviously. I would not use the reverse light circuit for this as these wires are very thin. Ford runs the wires to a connector near the master cylinder. The factory towing harness has two additional wires that run to the hitch from here (the second wire is for the reverse light circuit). I spliced into this harness and ran just two new wires to the hitch and used the factory fusing/relay. There is a blue wire also pre-wired to the 4 wire stock harness which goes into the cab where Ford nicely mounted a connector for a brake controller you need to install if electric brakes are needed.
Now - the hitch itself is a class IV but you have to buy and mount the 7 pin connector (most are around 25-30 bucks) and connect all the remaining wires. I purchased one with the 4-wire connector and soldered the new wires. I choose to make a special mounting bracket to avoid drilling into the hitch and weaken it.
I also ran the wires in loom and attached it to the factory harness to look factory-like and keep it protected.
I was lucky enough to find another forum where others provided me wiring info and good ideas, which I elaborated on.
Below are some photos if you are interested - let me know if you have questions - It was not a huge deal but I took my time and incorporated a back-up camera system to the reverse circuit.
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1761.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1758.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1754.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1709.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1752.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=7_WAY_PLUG_WIRING_WEB.jpg
First of all - in 07 the ratio is 3:73 - so upgrade here is not needed
I had the larger Trans cooler and Radiator installed by the dealer - sorta warranty...
To elaborate on what was posted earlier - The expys have partial wiring for a 7 wire harness under the hood. The fuse box at the Rad. houses the HD relay and fuse for the additional power required to charge trailer batteries - but they are empty. If you want to do this correctly, you need to run a large ga wire to the hitch obviously. I would not use the reverse light circuit for this as these wires are very thin. Ford runs the wires to a connector near the master cylinder. The factory towing harness has two additional wires that run to the hitch from here (the second wire is for the reverse light circuit). I spliced into this harness and ran just two new wires to the hitch and used the factory fusing/relay. There is a blue wire also pre-wired to the 4 wire stock harness which goes into the cab where Ford nicely mounted a connector for a brake controller you need to install if electric brakes are needed.
Now - the hitch itself is a class IV but you have to buy and mount the 7 pin connector (most are around 25-30 bucks) and connect all the remaining wires. I purchased one with the 4-wire connector and soldered the new wires. I choose to make a special mounting bracket to avoid drilling into the hitch and weaken it.
I also ran the wires in loom and attached it to the factory harness to look factory-like and keep it protected.
I was lucky enough to find another forum where others provided me wiring info and good ideas, which I elaborated on.
Below are some photos if you are interested - let me know if you have questions - It was not a huge deal but I took my time and incorporated a back-up camera system to the reverse circuit.
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1761.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1758.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1754.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1709.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=IMG_1752.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/boatrboy/Expedition%20-%202007/?action=view¤t=7_WAY_PLUG_WIRING_WEB.jpg
Can you elaborate on the wiring for the reverse backup lights on the wiring harness near the brake cylinder? I would like to add this circuit for a flat 5way tow harness. The reverse lights just activate a solinoid to deactivate the surge brakes on my trailer when backing up.
#27
04-22-2008, 08:15 AM
#28
04-22-2008, 10:00 AM
#29
04-22-2008, 10:36 AM
rowekmr, you are right on with that comment. That was my experience too. I could find one or two XLTs with HD Tow package but not leather (what I preferred) and > 40 miles away from me so very inconvenient if you do not have a lot of spare time to jump many dealerships. Possibly more choices if you went up to Eddie Bauer and that price point. I resisted after market but succumbed to having the dealer install (and a side benefit of radiator and transmission fluid change while they replaced the components).
Now I am learning all too much about bearings and racers and bearing buddies and such as I broke a bearing (get this ... drove to a boating class to get the boat safety certified and then the bearing broke as I left to go home but at least not on the side of the highway!) and all 4 wheels on the dual axle needed maintenance. The issue was forced a little sooner than I might have gotten to it but I'm good to go now and a lot of new knowledge.
Now I am learning all too much about bearings and racers and bearing buddies and such as I broke a bearing (get this ... drove to a boating class to get the boat safety certified and then the bearing broke as I left to go home but at least not on the side of the highway!) and all 4 wheels on the dual axle needed maintenance. The issue was forced a little sooner than I might have gotten to it but I'm good to go now and a lot of new knowledge.
#30
04-22-2008, 01:28 PM
That's interesting since almost every expedition I looked at had the towing package (HD). Per ford they state that 30% of XLTs should be ordered w/ HD tow, 40% of Eddie Bs, 60% of Limited and 70% of King Ranches. Again, in FL I notice that 9 out of 10 have the HD tow package unless you are looking at the cheapies (XLT).