Oh, I thought you said the US is subsidizing Venzuela for selling their own oil.
The Government giving its people a deal on gas is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that. Its better than paying for gas where half the price is tax and in England where 90% of the gas price is tax. Uh, we use our tax dollars to pay for military hardware too. Thats not unusual. Countries have the right to defend themselves.

When it comes to Gas, I think the US Govnt should control it or most of it. Thats the life-blood of this country especially when half the world fight wars over it. At least we can vote on decisions when it comes to gas prices.
But look what the Exxons of the world are doing to us. Ripping us a nice one in the rear. Let me repeat 10 billion in quarterly profit. Car manufacturers, milk sellers, ipod manufactures, do what you want when it comes to profit, we don't need that stuff or expensive cars, but we NEED GAS and I want to drive my old trucks on $1 a gallon.

But you have a choice to use a linux box, or a MAC or Microsoft but you don't have a choice of Gas. Big difference. I use Linux at home. I use Microsoft at work and I use a MAC for my laptop. BUT I use gas for my Truck. Gas for my Acura and Gas for my motorcycle. One option.

The essence of true competition is OPTIONS and not one option with fixed prices. That has nothing to do with socialism nor communism. Thats not even real capitalism.

 

These are better gas websites: www.gasbuddy.com and www.gaspricewatch/new.

I haven't been using them as I have no choices until I get to Tonopah, Hawthorne or Reno or Carson and I already know the cheapest sites.

Regards,

Alanco

 

Indirectly we ARE subsidizing the Venezualan people because their govt is giving them fuel at an artificially low price. (Actually due to the world paying high prices)

The GOVT doesn't give their people anything. (and shouldn't)



I think you may have missed the point.....GOVT PRICE CONTROLS HAVE BEEN TRIED.

It will cause gas lines (like it did in the 70's) NO GOVT should EVER control ANY commodity. PERIOD.

Not only does it NEVER work....but it has NEVER WORKED.


Take a look at the California link shown in one of the earlier posts. the oil companies are not making any more profits (percentage wise) than any other commodity producer. The main factor in gasoline prices is the price of crude oil.

The oil companies do not set the price of crude oil. The market does.. If there's a shortage of oil the buyers will bid the price up. If there's excess oil compared to the amount of buyers then the price will drop.

ECON 101. It's that simple. There's more buyers now than than in the history of oil buying. It's not going to change unless there's a large oil find.

 

www.gasbuddy.com and www.gaspricewatch.com/new

See post #32, this is a correction for the second site, left out .com This board will not let me edit post 32.

Regards,

Alanco

 

We would have to respectfully disagree.
You are obviously misinformed if you believe the market is driving the cost of $3 a gallon in this country. Thats an inflated cost.

Again, we are not subsidizing Venezuela. Indirectly is such an easy word to use. We can use indirectly for just about any opinion. We are indirectly subsidized for our health insurance by our employers.

How do you measure what is artificial? What market is the defacto rule of how much gas should cost? If it's less than $3, its automatically artificially priced and the chances are the US is subsidizing the cost to countries who charge less. Give me a break. Thats corporate brain washing. Why does Puerto Rico pay $1.75 for gas and in the states we don't. Its controlled by us. Let me guess, they are indirectly subsidized too. Eastern Block countries pay less than $1 a gallon and Nigeria (.38 a gallon) Indirectly subsidized by the States as well. Whatever dude. I think that if your country produces a product that the only superpower in the world wants like a drug, than you should pass the cheap cost of gas to your people. With all the coruption in those countries, thats the least they can do for their people.

Govn't prices never worked??? Duh, its working in Venzuela. That killed your argument. We are not talking about bootleg liquor. We are talking about Gas. You know. The stuff people will die for.

The 70's oil crisis issue was due mainly to an oil imbargo by OPEC against those supporting Israel with its conflict with Syria and Egypt. Supply dropped drastically and prices went up and there was not enough gas to satisfy American demand so Nixon had to take drastic measures during drastic times. not because of your reason of why govnt controlling prices. We had no choice.

I do agree with you crude is not endless and there is a need for alternatives, but your premise about subsidizing and artificial cost which is relative, is off the mark.

Countries like Venezuela don't have people who needs 3 to 5 cars in one household. Not as many people drive as Americans do. I drive 1 1/2 hours to work living in the Washington DC area. With a mixture of the SUV Craze and just plane old high consumption, the oil companies can easly find excuses to make the prices go up 75% in a year. We as consumers make it easy for them to make those decisions and we sit and justify it for them. Poor Countries like Venzezuela and eastern block countries are not high consumers. Paying $3 a gallon would be unrealistic and less productive for the people, because they could not get to work.

I don't believe for a minute those California figures on how the price of gas is justified here. Not everything you read on the internet is true. .10 of the $3.00 is profit by the oil company. Hey I have a brooklyn bridge to sell.


I like the dialog though

 

Dear Sancochojoe:

You are so misinformed. I could blame it on your acceptance of liberal/socialist/rhetoric, but it is your attitude against not wanting to learn anything new that is more of a young thing, that is, you are old enough to know it all. Remember, it is what you learn after you know it all that counts, and we older guys know that.

Your facts are wrong. In Puerto Rico, gas is at 2.71 in San Juan, while in Columbia SC it is 2.28. You can get the Puerto Rico prices on one of my urls: www.gaspricewatch.com/new. Why is gas in the US higher? First of all we do not produce enough oil for our needs, and unlike Venezuela which has more oil than it needs, and whose government stole the oil companies, can obviously sell gas for any price above cost. To use your expression, Duh! It also has to do with our dollars not being worth as much because we buy so much oil. Some foreign states' currencies are worth as much as 10% more to the exporting companies. We are nice enough not to break up OPEC by force; and we do not drill our own oil and we generate too much of our electric power with oil; In California due to their smog regulations, they even burn natural gas in the winter for electric power which is entirely idiotic and it robs gas from home use, and pushes up the price. Gas is more expensive in the US due to our EPA gas regulations, our eschewing of leaded gas, and (especially in California) refusal to allow new refineries.
Gas refined in Califonia and unleaded gas in general yields less refined gasoline per barrel by about 10%, because it has to use a higher octane yield, which causes more diesel and lower distillates to be produced which can't be easily sold in California, so these products have to be trucked out. Diesel in California is cheaper than unleaded regular for the most part. Homes in California are generally not heated with oil.(Same as Diesel).

One of the reasons gas in Utah is lower than Nevada is that there is a refinery in Salt Lake City that does not refine to California standards which are drastically more expensive due to additives. Utah's gas tax is also less. In general, Utah gas is not found further west in Nevada than Winnemucca, and Ely on Hwy 50, Pioche and Caliente to the south on 93. Nevada's gas tax is one of the highest in all 50 states, exceeded only by California. In Nevada it is somewhat justified by the lower population, and great number of roads. Hawaii, which has one refinery by Ewa on Oahu, has the highest gas price in the 50 states. Their gas tax is the highest but there, driving is less, and there is not that much to drive to in terms of distance. Also, the tropical sun and moisture, just like South Florida rusts cars quickly, particularly if they are not garaged. Our old trucks are not found there for the most extent. Very few trucks on the road and no 18 wheelers, so mostly newer small cars which use less gas, and it is safer to drive such cars since the mix of large vehicles is drastically less. The same goes for Puerto Rico.

If you do not believe facts on gas refining prices put out by the govermental bureaucracy in California, then you are free to believe as you believe, but you know I am right and your version is fantasy. It is easier to be an America hater, or a Jew hater. If we made nice to the Islamic Facists and turned our back on Israel they would sell us gas cheaper and all would be well. Of course, the fact that they teach theilr children that we are the great Satan and that their relligion does not allow acceptance of any other religion, and that they want to rule the world by Islamic Law, means nothing to you. What Hitler had done meant nothing to Chamberlain either, in 1940. Had we not stepped in, and had England not survived, and Hitler invaded Russia who held off Hitler for two years, we would have not had the two plus years we needed to scale up and plan the D-Day Invasion. Had we not won,(our coalition then was only Australia, New Zealand, Canada as far as Europe) we would be speaking German and there would be no liberals like you.

The main reason gas is relatively cheap in Reno and Western Nevada is that it is piped over the Sierras by Southern Pacific Pipeline, and there are quantity sales. Gas in rural spots, like Austin, 170 miles from Reno, is trucked there and there are much fewer sales per station, not even enough to keep two stations open in the winter. This is true despite the fact that costs to run a station and comply with all the rules are the same. The amount charged per gallon by Austin stations are much higher than charged by a station in Reno. But every drop of gas sold in Austin is refined more than 350 miles away. Some day there will be a refinery in Nevada and that will soften prices. There is also reform coming in Nevada on state taxes on gasoline which are rising with the price. It is especially unfair to the rural areas since they have to drive further distances and haul more of their food and retail buying.

These are the real facts, and Mexico and Venezuela whose oil industry was defeloped by the expertise of American and Dutch oil companies but in Venezuala is now socialized and run by a Commie dictator who is cozying up to Islamic dictators, plans to use his oil to exacerbate relations with this country. Mexico wants a hell of a lot from the US but does nothing for us. If you want to spout off about corruption, go to Mexico, in fact, get on a soapbox in Mexico City and see how long they let you talk....In Venezuela, Chavez would just shoot you. Be grateful for our free enterprise system: free speech and the second amendment and favorable government and lower taxes are necessary for entrepraneurship and the creation of jobs and personal wealth. If I had not created my own job who would have?

Regards,

Alanco

 

[QUOTE=alanco]I could blame it on your acceptance of liberal/socialist/rhetoric, ...

I'm so sick of that crap! I voted for Bush too, both times. I also voted for his dad both times. If I was old enough to vote for Reagan, I would have done that too. I think we're doing the right thing in the middle east, sorta. I actually think we should be a bit more hardlined, and isolationist. My book collection has works by Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O'Reilly, among others. In short, I'm a Conservative Republican...but you folks have GOT to stop spewing that left-wing conspiracy crap! That plays right into the hands of those Liberal idiots who waste my good oxygen rambling on about "paranoid right-wing zealots". You embarass yourself and everyone else who is a God-fearing, law-abiding, patriotic citizen. I apologize for being so harsh, but I've read that garbage until I just can't be quiet about it any more. Perhaps you should stop cleaning your assault rifles long enough to pull your head out of your highly fortified desert survival compound and join the rest of civilization. Hey, we're way over here, and we're tired of you folks making the rest of us look stupid. This country is not perfect, but it's the best there is. If you want to leave, I work in a place that sends planes to the middle east almost daily. Perhaps I could reserve you a seat.

 

[QUOTE=Code3]It is left wing conspiracy to socialize oil. It is left wing conspiracy to think that Islamic Facists will leave us alone. I do not have a "compound" defense mentality. I used to be a liberal but attacks on gun ownership and the realization that no liberal policy ever worked was proof enough. There is one deputy in the entire south half of this county who is 30 miles away. We protect ourselves and we do not have crime. Do not call me names just because some states have become left wing. As they do and as they affect business, businesses leave the state. Why would anything that I stated be regarded as garbage? Open your eyes, it is fact. Who attacked the Marines in Lebanon, who attacked our ship in the UAE? Who supplies the terrorists and the money for them in Iraq? Couldn't be Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia could it? Sorry to be so harsh myself, but facts are facts and they influence not only foreign affairs, but the price of oil.....

Regards,

Alanco

 

Man, and all I wanted to do was help folks get cheap gas in their towns. It turned into a socio-political tirade. I know there are a lot of people in the middle east who are bad guys. I know they are responsible for a lot of bad things. That's why I have a job. Don't presume to lecture me about my job, sir.

Anybody on this website own a Ford truck? I have a question...

 

Well i'm neither liberal or conservative because I don't base my life around political opnions, I form my opinions on reality. I don't put a political title on everything I beleive in. I'm a human first, not a republican or democrat. This is a powerful country yet we are so dependant upon countries we politically hate. How smart is that. If we are so smart, we should push for alternative solutions. They just put out a battery operated car that could beat a fararri (sp). Calling things a conspiracy just mean you ran out things to justify your argument. Use your own mind and don't regurgatate what radio hacks and political quacks tell you. Thats what they want.

If I don't like someone I don't buy from them and find other ways to get it, especially if I believe i'm superior then they are since that is what you are implying. Who cares if you discovered refining or taught other countries how to do things. What are you doing now. I guess we should attack Japan for teaching them all we know and now they make what we taught them better.

Now that countries want to change the rules you want to take the ball home because they don't want you to play anymore. I'm proud of this country and served in the first gulf war as a Marine for this country and nobody can tell me i'm any less of an American and we shouldn't be crying over what other countries do. If we are rich enough to take care of are people and make things comfortable for us then we should and you don't have to sacrifice being a capitalist to do it. In reality, the only true capitalist are people like Bill Gates, we are simply consumers.

I could understand your arguments if America had no other alternative and had to depend upon these crazy countries, but we do have alternatives. Use them.

I'M STILL KEEPING MY FORD TRUCK.

 

Amen brotha! I'm keeping all 3 of mine, and I'm putting a big, obnoxious, American, gas-guzzling 460 in one of em!

 

To Sancochojoe and Code 3:

You both are blowing about my political views which socially are more liberal than Code3, and politically more conservative than either of you. None of our media represents anything but left wing far to the left of at least half of the country, and are you both saying that you do not watch TV news because it is slanted, and then saying my opinions come from conservative talk radio? Is that not hypocrytical?

And that is after I corrected Sancochojoe's incorrect information and sent URLs that not only can give you the price of gas in Puerto Rico and a lot of small towns, then went over oil pricing at retail where we live?

Sancochojoe, I too am a veteran and I commend you for your service to this country. I think we both know how valuable our right of free speech truly is, and what we are facing from terrorists. Code 3, read history. In the 30s we downsized our military and became isolationist. We came close to losing World War two against a vile terrorist. We cannot disengage from the world. The terrorists hate our free speech and rail against the excesses of our pop culture. They will never leave us alone, and it is foolish and dangerous to think that they will. Why were we attacked by terrorists prior to 1990 and the first Gulf War? Why did they not leave us alone then?

Sancojoe, what electric car beat a Ferrari? The folly in hybrid cars is they are using lead acid gel batteries that in many cases add so much weight to the car that they get worse gas mileage than a comparable gas engined car. In that way they are no answer as they will be too expensive to maintain, and remain nothing but "feel good" cars. Just think of a 5 year old hybrid that needs new batteries? Who would pay for that? What really is an alternative is a hydrogen car powered by a fuel cell. They are not yet ready. Electric, non hybrid cars are even dumber. In many cases they are charged by a hydrocarbon burning steam plant in a city. They are useless except in a city. The only alternative at present is to drill for our own oil. Other than that, prepare to become a third world country.

I think you both got way too emotional over nothing but a discussion about what caused high oil prices. I think also that the thought that we now have to fight for our own existance and this thought is dismaying and hard to accept. One political party is accepting this fact and the other is denying the obvious. Your reactions are understandable in light of all the misinformation the alphabet media puts out in promoting their political agenda.

And if the next posts do not reflect the facts of oil prices, and leave out the political reactions, this post will die. Just remember the URLs:
www.gasbuddy.com and www.gaspricewatch.com/new. And gas here costs 3.39 minimum, and is 2.92 at Arco in Carson City.

Regards,

Alanco

 

TV represents left wing because TV is basically watched for entertainment. Thats how I look at it. I watch very little TV anyway, I listen to talk radio most of the time on XMRadio and they have both sides of the political forum with equal exposure. I never said what side you were on. Cut and paste any quote I said that suggest you are conservative. I don't care. I'm addressing your argument, not your political affiliation. I got the Purto Rico numbers from a recent CNN chart, but I guess thats too left for you so you won't believe it. It may not be true, It was quick to find, so I used the data.

Its amazing your not open to other alternatives. Crude oil will run out, I hope you don't believe other wise, if you do that is pure folly on your part. How can you boast about being the first at this and that and teaching other countries our technology, if you are not willing to accept newer technology and options to power vehicles during their early stages of research. When gas was put into cars, people thought it would be too dangerous because they would explode.

The basis of my beliefs is all based on civility. War in my opinion is not civil. Fighting countries for a product is not civil. Having to ability to avoid military conflict over "things" shows a society has reached the ultimate of civility. Thats my opinion and my belief system. There is nothing liberal or conservative or green about that.

If having oil or not determines if I will exist as a society it only suggest how premitive and uncivil we really are as a nation and no different then a third world country with money (oximoron).

The ability to take even water to power a 2 ton vehicle is amazing to me and perfecting something like that would show how far we come. I would be happy to power my 48 truck with hydrogen. From using dirty nasty oil to water is simply amazing. Thats just one option. But other options are just as amazing, you just have to put resource on it to perfect it. Oil is not endless. Corn will always grow, water will alway be there. Don't stop progress. Well thats how I teach my kids. Always look beyond the future. Thats why we as Americans have been so dominate, because we look to the future. Sorry to say, oil is not the future. We are fighting over it like crazed dogs.

 

Before you guys start sniveling about gas prices. Kailua Kona Hawaii is $4.40 a gallon.

 

Talk about inflation! when gas was 30 cents a gallon a good cup of coffee was a nickel! You seen what they charge for it now???

What this country needs is a good 10 cent cigar!