Is there any chance the "birdseed" is really walnut shell media from blasting during the rebuild? I would think any birdseed that was in ~120-150 degree oil for an hour or so would be completely disintegrated.

I'm real skeptical of the whole birdseed story and am also at a loss to see how a chewed up cylinder would make a noise like this. How can a ring get out of its groove while the piston is in the cylinder? Worst case there is maybe .010" difference in diameter between the piston and cylinder (a REALLY worn out cylinder). Rings are at least an 1/8th inch wide.

I'd love to see pictures!

 

or would have popped like popcorn...

 

Well, I went to the local pet store and bought a mouse for 99 cents. I've had the mouse sitting on my engine for four hours. I even threw a handful of bird seed (sorted the sunflower seeds first) in the oil pan to entice him to enter. NO GO! I don't think this will work so I'm taking him back for a refund! Or.... Maybe....... this only works on Chevy engines????

 

Imlowr2, What you bought was a STORE MOUSE, a CITY version of the real thing. CITY mice like PEOPLE FOOD.
What you need for your experiment is a COUNTRY MOUSE!
and a big cat to chase him around the garage until he sees the engine and runs for cover.


Try That and let us know how it goes!

ED

 

Ed,

It was stored with no intake or carb on it. I had placed a piece of cardboard over the lifter gallery and taped it up. I think the furry critters chewed their way in and set up shop in the lifter gallery. I'm not sure what other parts of the engine would have been accessible from there. Also, the oil had been drained so the pan was empty.

Vern

 

I didn't take pictures but I did look at the pistons. Actually, two of them had damage. One definitely had to be replaced, the other was iffy. The ring didn't actually come out of it's groove. It was somehow partially displaced enough that a portion of it squeezed sideways between the piston and the cylinder wall. That's where the damage to the cylinder wall occurred. Also, there was no distributor in the engine during the time it was stored so perhaps that also created a route within the engine where the furry creatures could access the pan. The machinist agrees that a mouse would not have done the damage to the piston. It would have to have been something hard but we are at a loss to determine what that was. There was nothing hard in the cylinder when he pulled the piston out. I wish I had more answers for you guys. This is definitely twilight zone stuff. BTW, the original pistons were flycuts and he is replacing them with flat tops. Does that give me a bit more compression or what is the advantage? He said they were the same price so he ordered flat tops...

Vern

 

Vern,

Maybe the damage to the oil ring happened during the initial build-up of the engine. Its possible that the ring compressor wasn't tight against the block when the piston was being pushed into the cylinder and the oil ring slipped out a bit and was then squeezed sideways as the piston was forced in the cylinder by an overzealous builder.

Bobby

 

OK, without an intake manifold the little b**tards would have direct access to the pan and pistons on any cylinders with open intake valves!
Note to self: always store mechanical components in HD plastic bags securely sealed.

The flycut pistons give a little more valve to piston clearance and a parallel surface to the face of the valve to push the valve closed rather than bending it should you experience any valve float. The cam manufacturer would be the one to tell you if you need the reliefs or not. Otherwise paint the tos of the pistons with dykem and temporarily assemble the engine without the head gaskets but with all the valve components and the valves properly adjusted. turn the engine over by hand a dozen or so revolutions (if there is no immediate valve to piston contact). Pull the heads and examine the tops of the pistons for any marks indicating contact with the valves. If there is none, put the gaskets in and button the engine up. If there is obvious contact or even the smallest of marks you'll need to pull the pistons back out and have them cut.
I agree the ring damage, especially if pushed upwards from the groove was likely an assembly error.

 

Vern,
This really stinks! I've seen mice/rats nests with small pieces of wire, washers, pennies, etc. I'm not sure if they're attracted to the shiney stuff like a racoon or not, but they may have dragged something in there that was later expelled out the exhaust.

I would give your machinest the specs on your new cam to make sure you don't need the relief cuts for clearance issues. If all other dimensions of the new vs. existing pistons are the same, the absense of relief cuts will gain a very small, probably insignificant increase in compression ratio.

Good Luck!
Kent

 

If I recall, the cam you put in or replaced was a very mild grind. Something of a RV cam? With that cam, you should be fine. With the old cam which had a higher lift and duration, you may want to check it out for clearance. I think you'll be OK..

 

No no no! Pull the valve cover and verify that you do not have a bent pushrod or on the heads without guide plates, a worn out pushrod hole. If it is not an obvious part, and you can't adjust the lifter, I would put a quart of ATF in the oil, or the Marvel Mystery Oil. Make sure your oil is a detergent oil. I would change it as well.....But try adjusting the lifter, moving the lifter piston throughout its range........ A lot of times you only need to remove the lifter, take out the lock ring and remove the parts and there will be a little sludge in the valve. SBC manifolds are very easy.



And replace a SBC with a Ford what? Until the late 5.0 they were non performing engines with low compression and very poor gas mileage. Their bad heads meant they could never approach a comparable SBC.

 

I guess we're kind of past that scenario...

 

Uhh uhh uh! You are crossing the line here. The forum allows discussing problems with different engine makes in Ford chassis, but comparing, flaming or deriding Ford products is strictly verboden. This is a Ford site, play by the rules please.

 

Ax,

Thanks for the advise on using the flat tops but I'm going to leave all that up to the machinist now. That's why I'm paying him the big bucks...

Considering I did the original assembly work it would not surprise me that I may have caused the ring problem...but it ran good for the 2500 miles I put on afterward. One more thing. The machinist said that the head bolts were not as tight as they should have been and it would have been only a matter of time before the head gaskets went. I know I tightened them in the correct sequence and according to tightening specs so this also puzzles me. He said that they only took about 25 ft lbs of torque to break them loose and they should have been tightened to 65. I don't remember what I tightened them to but I did use a torque wrench and followed the engine tightening specs in my Motors Manual. I also cleaned the threads before tightening the bolts down but I did use the original bolts...not new ones. Is there anything that could cause them to loosen?

Vern

 

Torque to loosen is not always an indication of proper tightening torque. Bolt torquing is a bit of an inexact science due to the different purposes of torquing the bolts and the techniques used.
Let's look at some examples to see if it clears things up.
When a bolt and nut is used to "clamp" parts together, such as the bearing end of a connecting rod, the tightening force or torque is actually stretching the bolt and is using the elastic properties of the bolt to hold the parts together much like a very stiff rubberband. Mission critical assemblers such as NASCAR engine builders actually measure that length change rather than just relying on the torque wrench reading to determine the clamping force, and do not reuse bolts that have been tightened in this manner as they lose some of that elasticity each time they are tightened and eventually will break. with this type of tightening lubricating the threads and surfaces under the bolthead and nut while torquing is usually speced so friction doesn't prevent the bolt from stretching the proper amount.
In the case of a bolt going into a threaded hole such as the bolts holding the head or waterpump or intake manifold on, the block is much softer and less elastic than the bolt, so trying to stretch the bolt would result in pulling or stripping the threads out of the block before the bolt stretched. In this case a gasket (and sometimes a lock washer) is used to provide the elasticity and friction between the bolt head and the surface under it is relied upon to keep the bolt tight. In this use the torque spec must be checked as to if the bolt thread is supposed to be torqued lubed or dry, and in either case the surface under the bolt head, especially if no lockwasher is used, should always be kept dry. When a bolt has been previously tightened into a threaded hole especially if it was overtightened, will pull a small amount of metal up around the bolthole. You should check for this occurance when reassmbling a gasketed surface by laying a fine toothed file flat to the surface and running it over the bolt holes. If the surface becomes shiny around the bolt hole take a couple more passes with the file until the shiny area starts to expand out from just a small circle around the hole. Some people will use a shallow angled countersink bit or even a larger drillbit by hand to cut a small chamfer at the top of the hole to give room for any metal that may be pulled up when next tightened. This is a sound practice when the chips cut are not going to fall into any moving parts or can be cleaned afterwards, whereas the filings from a fine file will be too small to be concerned about. If you are totally **** like me, pass a strong magnet over the parts to pick up even the finest of iron dust. A gasket is not as elastic (unless it's rubber) as metal and will permanently compress some soon after assembly from being squeezed and engine heat. This is why it is imortant to retorque any gasket surface bolts after heat cycling the engine once or twice after assembly. The bolts holding these type assemblies are not heavily stressed by the tightenng and can safely be cleaned and reused if not galled on the underside of the head. Lockwashers should be replaced however.
Hope this helps.