My guess is that the scale was out of calibration although I'm surprised Ford left only 400 lbs of capacity on the front axle. But with 3 passengers in the rearmost row or a trailer with tongue weight the front axle would be lighter.

People have been overloading vans as long as there have been vans because it's so darn easy to put 10,000 lbs of something inside them. They used to make E150 extended cargo vans. I remember seeing them driving around on the rear bump stops.

If you keep good tires and brakes on the van, I don't think you should be concerned about exceeding the front GAWR by the weight of one person if that is really what Ford gave you; GAWR numbers are all static numbers, and when you're driving, each axle will see great variations from shifting weight.

Hell, there was an ongoing conversation about new Crew Cab F150's with 20" wheels ending up with a net sticker payload of UNDER 1000 lbs. Really. Four big guys in the seats (me and 3 twin brothers) leave no capacity for even a cooler full of beverages and you better believe the four guys will load the bed with gear AND pull a trailer because Ford ads say an F150 can pull 9000 lbs.

I'll put my bet on a miscalibrated scale. If you re-weigh, make sure the operator sets the scale zero to be right on.

George

 

OK.
Spent lunch hour at the CAT.

-Did the re-weigh on different plate sections.
-Stepped off scale for weighs
-Assuming 28 gal of diesel in tank (based on trip odo and known average mpg)
-No rearmost bench
-No other cargo or passengers or open containers of alcohol







About 120lb discrepancy on steer axle weights.

Called CAT tech support. Technician had a lot of legal, DOT, regulations info to share, but basically at one point said "you're weighing a feather on a bathroom scale". Said its calibrated up to 200,000 lbs, and it "turns on" at 2,000. Wouldn't commit to questions about "margin of error" or percentage accuracy.

Although, he did admit my whole rig at near 20,000 lbs gross would return more "accurate" individual values.

AFA my weigh from last May, I think you guys guessed right- scale must have been out of calibration. Interestingly, when talking to the tech, I gave him the weigh station and he could pull it up real time and look at the numbers.

 

All makes sense. My surprise here is the OEM curb weight vs GAW on the 7.3 van. Ford ran only a 400 lb margin here so a couple really big guys in the front seats in an empty van would put the front axle over weight.

I have a bud who was a primary engineer on the Ford E van front suspension when they moved from kingpins to ball joints in 1992. I'm gonna ask him wtf Ford was thinking about this low weight capacity.

I'm a Detroit east sider but seeing Romulus is so familiar aka Metro Airport territory...

George

 

Yeah, seems like a little more leeway would be in order for a "Super Duty".

I'm still getting used to configuring this van for towing, too. On my previous TV, I could reload the steer axle within 60lbs of unloaded weight with my 1400lb torsion bars.

With the E-350, at max weight distribution with same bars, I'm still about 500lbs shy. Drives fine, no 'floaty' feeling, trailers perfect level, but I just don't like the slight nose high attitude. Funny tho, adding a 10,000lb trailer improves the steer axle weight margin.

Anyhow, I'll save that for another thread. Don't want to hijack my own post.

 

French fries and twin bros.

I keep laughing at that now and then…

More serious note, I wonder where we can get an accurate weight of our vans. I wonder if scrapyards do it more accurately , what their scales are compared to CAT scales.

I'm actually very surprised surprised that the CAT scales go up to 200,000 pounds. Isnt 80,000 the maximum for public roads?

 

Yeah, bothers me since +/- 100 lbs is significant when it comes to tongue weight and hitches.

CAT tech was saying junk yards, moving and trucking companies usually have their own portable scales that they might rent out. Would also be able to get individual passenger/driver side weights with those. Not sure how convenient that would be since I typically weigh the rig every time we load up for trips that are going to last a week or more.

 

My 2003 E-350 extended cargo has the 7.3 in it. In these years Ford softened the spring rates and heights somewhat in a direct response to all of the media rollover hype in the 90's. As if it wasn't obvious that taller vehicles shouldn't be driven the same as a Miata! Remember when everyone was shocked that Suzuki Samurai's could roll so easily?
The total weight looks accurate, but there are more accurate ways to measure isolated axle weights and even loading side to side. You essentially added weight to the front springs when you removed the rear most seat in the extended van, not much but some, due to leverage. The more rear cargo, hitch weight from a trailer, etc., the less weight up front, as well as a much smoother ride. These things are the worst choice for 2 people commuting with no load!
The extended gas vans had even softer springs than my diesel, but they all share the same other components with other E-Series rated much higher in the front. I finally put new heavier coils in to fix the sag caused from 13 years of supporting the International 444! With that said, the extended E-350 vans were obviously meant to carry more rear cargo without having to increase turning radius or make the ride extremely rough up front due to overly stiff coils.
IMO, Ford went too soft on front spring rates for these years. After replacing front coils with TTC-2814 HD coils, it was well worth it. They are 4000 lb. which is what one of my old 1991 E-350's had years ago (@3950). I have no sag and no "diving" into turns like before, and only slightly rougher on dirt/rough roads but I'm on smooth highways most of the time.

 

How much does that dang rear seat weigh ? And exactly how far back in the extended body is it mounted?

 

If you weigh just the front on an appropriate scale for a light truck, I bet you would find it has capacity for 2 overweight front passengers and way more cargo up front. The front GAWR rating on your van is 3800 lbs., front spring code (SPR on sticker) is NS, the rear GAWR is 6084 lbs., and the GVWR is 9400 lbs. For comparison sake, my 2003 E-350 Extended Cargo has front GAWR 4050 lb. (SPR - RS), same rear GAWR of 6084, and same GVWR 9400lb. IMO, they are all grossly under sprung in front in these years.
The only reason I mentioned weight in the rear is that when you actually put a significant load on them (which I do), that loading can significantly change (sometimes even lessen) the amount of weight shown on the front axle.For example: I can tow up to a 9600 lb. trailer with a tongue weight up to 1000 lb. (or 1200 lb. distributed). When that kind of weight is added to the 6 foot rear cantilever it can lessen weight on the front axle while adding to the rear.

 

If you really want to have an accurate weight you need to take the van to a local grain storage facility, gravel quarry, birdseed plant, fertilizer plant, petfood plant, or farm co-op. ( Look in an actual phone book yellow pages for these types of places) They will normally have an accurate scale that is not marketed the same way CAT Scales are.

They (Cat) probably keeps a margin of error due to the 'guarantee' they offer, and to keep themselves and their customers, (commercial trucks) out of trouble, they may have a 'fudge factor' built in. I dont know this but I suspect it.

BTW guys, the scales I'm referring to, if maintained correctly, are accurate to less than 40 pounds. I know this because I have personally weighed myself, on many different scales, as I stand on the 75 foot long scale and watch the readout. It usually will fluctuate between 200 to 240, and I'm about 230 or so. So, dont believe the line about truck scales not being accurate at 4000 to 8000 pounds. Thats BS. I can also see a 200-240 pound decrease as I step out of my commercial truck. Example: 76,500 with me in the seat, and 76,280 after I've stepped out.

If you want good numbers, find a local facility that will let you weigh, and normally there is no charge. Be nice, and smile, maybe trade a box of donuts....the gate or office personnel will either allow it or not, but it wont hurt to ask.

If your local city landfill weighs incoming loads, and most do, they are an excellent place to go, and its usually free assuming you can produce a local utility bill or bank statement to prove your residence. Call and ask. This is what I did, my van weighed 5990 pounds total that day, but I didnt axle weigh it.

If this fails in your area, do a google search for 'public scales' in your area.

If even that fails, you might be able to get weighed at a local highway weigh station, if and only if the officers on duty are in a good mood.

What your looking for is a non-paid scale, that is calibrated correctly, and used everyday for commercial use, not a scale that exists to make money in and of itself.

Just a side thought: With Twin I-Beam suspensions, you should be able to look at the camber of the front wheels, and the distance under the bump stops, at least, and see if the axle looks overloaded. Severe overloading should be obvious. My money is on the CAT scale being wrong.

Good luck!

 

Booniedad:

This is the exact E-Mail from my (retired) Ford suspension engineer friend, who specifically worked on the '92 balljoint version of the E van suspension. (He also worked on the Ford Explorer front suspension and other stuff.) As I recall, the van is newer to you, so his questions about what the van was like when new are not that relevant.

I gave him the numbers and the only info I omitted was the rear bench not being in the van, because I asked him before you mentioned that:

"That seems a bit odd to me as well.


Ford uses a loading model to pick the GAWR's. It could be that the model for that particular vehicle assumes enough load in the rear of the van to unload the front. I know the 15 pass has a lot of overhang in the back. Truck loading is hard to predict.



The limiting factor for GAWR is usually the springs (for that case it is definitely NOT the axle casting, I suspect wheels are OK as well). If he is concerned, he could install the next higher spring. The drawback to that is that it could ride higher at curb. Does it seem to ride low at curb right now? Does he spend a lot of time driving with only front seat passengers? Does he experience jounce bumper hits while driving around? If it seems to have sagged since brand new, the next-up spring is a logical fix.



I know that the E Van has a lot of margin regarding loading - I have seen them take a pounding on durability with all sorts of load conditions. If it ain't broken by now (since '03) it will probably never really be an issue.



I don't mind answering Ford Truck questions. My opinion is they are the best in the business."

 

In most states the limit on federal highways is 80,000 without a permit being needed. In Michigan for example, the legal weight limit on highway doubles is 164,000 pounds.

But any truck scale must be able to measure the overage for permit fees, and fines, if applicable, which are usually assesed by the number of thousands of pounds over the limit.

Of course, heavy haulers can go WAY over 80,000 pounds. They usually pay a fee based on weight and length depending on which state they are traveling in.

 

Pull over somewhere that's quiet. Now shout at your van, "Alto, policía. Todos quietos, Hagan exactamente lo que mandamos" (Stop! police. Everybody freeze, do exactly what we say!)

Wait to see if the extra weight answers.

 

Thanks Yo'
I'm second owner. About 54k miles when I got it. Noticed it was bottoming out over small bumps. Decided it was time to change out coils after snapping lower shock mount on a small pothole.

It's the family DD, so it's usually loaded. It's also the tow vehicle.
Good to know it's basically the coil springs setting the GAWR... and not axle.

 

One more response from my bud--I mentioned the lower shock mount breaking and I thought to ask if parts were common to the E450 and the answer seems to be "yes" so bigger front springs, if you need, them, would kick up the GAWR:

"I forget the actual number, but E450 Frt GAWR is over 4000# and the axle I-beams (and radius arms) are common with E250 and E350. I think the wheels might be shown on the GVW sticker. They are not common with E450 since 450 gets the dual wheels. Bottom line, he would likely be OK bumping the frt springs one-up.


I remember the frt shock lower mount is a stud welded to the radius arm. Would take a pretty serious hit to break that off - big pot hole."