460 vs 7.3 turbo diesel
#76
01-25-2014, 10:31 AM
Fleet Owner
7.3 POWERSTROKE
$75 oil changes every 5k…………$2250
$500 HPOP every 50k……………..$1500 WRONG, they go 150k plus
$2000 injectors every 75k………$4000 WRONG, they go 150k plus and they are NOT 2000
$28Fuel filter every 15k…………...$280
$80 Glow plugs every 50k......…$240 WRONG, they go 150k plus
$150 Tow Bills every 50K..........$450 No need for a tow
15MPG@$4.00 per gallon……...$40,000
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$48,720 So in reality.. 43,880
7.3 IDI
$75 oil changes every 7500.....$1500 WRONG, oil gets changed at 5k.$2250
$50 Lift Pump every 150k...........$50
$28 Fuel Filter every 15k...........$280
$80 Glow Plugs every 50k..........$240 Not needed till about 150k
$1000-1500 IP and injectors………$1500
$100 Periodic timing……………………$700
15MPG@$4.00/Gal ..............$40,000
-----------------------------------------------------
$42,070 So really it is $44,860
460
$25 oil changes every 3k……..$1250
$96 Tunes up every 100k…..…$144
….$20 spark plugs
….$25 distributer cap
….$16 rotor
….$35 Spark plug wires
$15 Fuel filter every 15k……….$150
10MPG @3.50 per gallon………..$52,500
--------------------------------------------------
54,044
So you save $5324 with a Powerstroke over a 460, but there is more financial risk in a powerstroke and the truck costs more. But you save $11,974 with the IDI with less financial risk and the truck costs the same or less then a 460.
So I'll make the claim that owning an IDI IS an economical reason to own a diesel.
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Fixed it for ya,
$75 oil changes every 5k…………$2250
$500 HPOP every 50k……………..$1500 WRONG, they go 150k plus
$2000 injectors every 75k………$4000 WRONG, they go 150k plus and they are NOT 2000
$28Fuel filter every 15k…………...$280
$80 Glow plugs every 50k......…$240 WRONG, they go 150k plus
$150 Tow Bills every 50K..........$450 No need for a tow
15MPG@$4.00 per gallon……...$40,000
---------------------------------------------------
$48,720 So in reality.. 43,880
7.3 IDI
$75 oil changes every 7500.....$1500 WRONG, oil gets changed at 5k.$2250
$50 Lift Pump every 150k...........$50
$28 Fuel Filter every 15k...........$280
$80 Glow Plugs every 50k..........$240 Not needed till about 150k
$1000-1500 IP and injectors………$1500
$100 Periodic timing……………………$700
15MPG@$4.00/Gal ..............$40,000
-----------------------------------------------------
$42,070 So really it is $44,860
460
$25 oil changes every 3k……..$1250
$96 Tunes up every 100k…..…$144
….$20 spark plugs
….$25 distributer cap
….$16 rotor
….$35 Spark plug wires
$15 Fuel filter every 15k……….$150
10MPG @3.50 per gallon………..$52,500
--------------------------------------------------
54,044
So you save $5324 with a Powerstroke over a 460, but there is more financial risk in a powerstroke and the truck costs more. But you save $11,974 with the IDI with less financial risk and the truck costs the same or less then a 460.
So I'll make the claim that owning an IDI IS an economical reason to own a diesel.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fixed it for ya,
I have own MULTIPLE of each one of these
As for you body lift idea. What is he doing to do, a 3FOOT body lift?
#77
01-25-2014, 10:57 AM
#78
01-25-2014, 11:06 AM
Fleet Owner
Exactly. He already knows what it is. It is bought and paid for and the "cost savings" of operation a diesel is NULL and VOID
#80
01-26-2014, 01:38 AM
You got nice trucks there is not arguing that, but clearly you also have a thick wallet. Some of us do things on a budget and an OBS PS is not an engine for someone without disposable income.
And no of course not but 3-4" could make a real difference.
#81
01-26-2014, 08:45 AM
I guess I have to add my 2 cent's.
I think it's funny to hear people bash a 7.3 Powerstroke. Make's me wonder if any of them have any experience with the engine at all, they claim to but I call BS!!
I've owned a 01 7.3 for 12 years, it's my go to rig for pulling. I live here in ranch country in Nebraska, most of us use our pickups like a semi. When I haul hay depending on the trailer I pull it's either loaded with 17600 lbs of big round's or the big trailer carries 22400 lbs. I've hauled a lot more than that, point being that engine has all the power I've ever needed and the only thing it's ever cost me is oil changes and ball joint's. I know it doesn't have the power that newer diesel's have but mine will outlast them and be in the shop less.
Brother's has approx 160,000 mile's, dad's has 260,000 and the same story.
With proper maintenance these engine's are bullet proof.
I also own a 91 F250 with a 460, don't get me wrong it's a hell of a pickup I love it, it's my daily driver with a hell of a lot of power, but believe me it's no Powerstroke!!
Sorry for the long post and I'm sure I will get called a liar, that's fine. Any time anyone is in Nebraska you can look me up and I'll show you!
I think it's funny to hear people bash a 7.3 Powerstroke. Make's me wonder if any of them have any experience with the engine at all, they claim to but I call BS!!
I've owned a 01 7.3 for 12 years, it's my go to rig for pulling. I live here in ranch country in Nebraska, most of us use our pickups like a semi. When I haul hay depending on the trailer I pull it's either loaded with 17600 lbs of big round's or the big trailer carries 22400 lbs. I've hauled a lot more than that, point being that engine has all the power I've ever needed and the only thing it's ever cost me is oil changes and ball joint's. I know it doesn't have the power that newer diesel's have but mine will outlast them and be in the shop less.
Brother's has approx 160,000 mile's, dad's has 260,000 and the same story.
With proper maintenance these engine's are bullet proof.
I also own a 91 F250 with a 460, don't get me wrong it's a hell of a pickup I love it, it's my daily driver with a hell of a lot of power, but believe me it's no Powerstroke!!
Sorry for the long post and I'm sure I will get called a liar, that's fine. Any time anyone is in Nebraska you can look me up and I'll show you!
#82
01-26-2014, 10:27 AM
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The oil change numbers above seem suspect - does the OBS PS have a smaller oil capacity than the '99 and up model? My '01 took 15 quarts if I remember correctly (or was it 16?), my '94 IDIT takes 10 with the stock filter, so oil changes on a PS are 50% MORE than with an IDI. And no CPS to leave you stranded with an IDI! I'm not bashing the PS, but around here a '95 with a PS (in nice shape) is still a $8-10k truck and probably has 200-250k mileage. A '93-94 IDIT (much harder to find I'll admit) is a $3500 - $6000 truck and usually around 150k and hasn't been modded to death by someone who thinks a diesel should accelerate like a 460. And except for at idle, my IDIT is noticeably quieter than my PS was. And the IDIT is averaging well over 17 MPG over the last 5k, an equivalent 460 is lucky to break 10, and diesel here is around $.60 -.70/gallon more, making it about 18% more expensive with 70% better fuel economy.
#83
01-26-2014, 10:39 AM
Fleet Owner
Of course, my daily is an IDI, I own two, I've never bothered to own a PS. IMO They are an expensive unreliable nightmare but I'm not going to argue this here.
You got nice trucks there is not arguing that, but clearly you also have a thick wallet. Some of us do things on a budget and an OBS PS is not an engine for someone without disposable income.
And no of course not but 3-4" could make a real difference.
You got nice trucks there is not arguing that, but clearly you also have a thick wallet. Some of us do things on a budget and an OBS PS is not an engine for someone without disposable income.
And no of course not but 3-4" could make a real difference.
And what does having nice trucks have to do with anything? I have almost as much in to my 86 IDI truck as I paid for my 97 PSD. The PSD has NEVER left me stranded and it has almost twice the power. Wish I could say that about the IDI
As for the 3-4k in 150,000 miles, that is a drop in the bucket.
The point I was making is for those who buy a diesel(and tell themselves) that it is more cost effective are only fooling themselves,
I own 6 diesels because I WANT to, NOT because they are cheaper to own/operate.
The most cost effective thing I own is my 04 ranger that get 18-20mpg, has $25 oil changes and hauls more on a regular basis than MOST do with their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks these days.
#84
01-26-2014, 11:16 AM
This is why I even justify owning a 250 in the first place, because it usually lives life with a trailer behind it. Most people around me have huge lifted Cummins and PSD trucks. Talking like 8 inch lifts and 38's typically (and even one 13 inch lifted 6.0 with 42's) and they never tow anything. You can't tow good with that. I see more 1/2 tons working hard than anything and that is sad. Far too many over worked 1/2 tons and hardly worked 3/4 tons
#85
01-26-2014, 05:55 PM
"unreliable" is a relative term, in this case yes a PS is more unreliable then an IDI just like a EFI 460 is more unreliable then a carbureted 460. They are all generally reliable, we aren't talking about 80s jags here or anything. But yes, some are more reliable then others.
What does that matter, I don't have to own a thing to know that a don't want to own a thing, that would just be stupid. To know what I'm talking about I don't have to make all my own mistakes and can learn from others experience.
You answered your own question in the remainder of your post
Can we stop hijacking the OPs thread now?
#86
01-26-2014, 06:31 PM
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IMO if Powerstrokes were so unreliable and such nightmares they wouldn't be used in school buses, ambulances, delivery vehicles, etc. In any one of those applications downtime = lost money.
OP- Do a tune up, change the oil, put gas in it, and drive it. Fix whatever breaks and keep on driving it. You rely on it to make you money, so it makes no sense to dump a ton in (headers, etc) and raise your overhead.
OP- Do a tune up, change the oil, put gas in it, and drive it. Fix whatever breaks and keep on driving it. You rely on it to make you money, so it makes no sense to dump a ton in (headers, etc) and raise your overhead.
#87
01-26-2014, 07:46 PM
Fleet Owner
It IS exactly like saying that an EFI truck is a nightmare compared to a carbureted truck. That is a fair comparison, there is just more to go wrong. However when one of those now 18-26 year old complications goes wrong on a EFI 460 it's generally a rather cheap easy fix. When it goes wrong on a PS it's generally MUCH more expensive and more involved to fix.
A EFI is in no way more expensive to fix. Just because YOU are untrained, doesn't not mean that everyone is
"unreliable" is a relative term, in this case yes a PS is more unreliable then an IDI just like a EFI 460 is more unreliable then a carbureted 460. They are all generally reliable, we aren't talking about 80s jags here or anything. But yes, some are more reliable then others.
Please, explain to me how a PSD is unreliable compared to an IDI or how EFI is unreliable to a Carb?
What does that matter, I don't have to own a thing to know that a don't want to own a thing, that would just be stupid. To know what I'm talking about I don't have to make all my own mistakes and can learn from others experience.
I have over and currently own a Carb 460, and efi 460, an IDI and several PSDs. The Most unreliable one being the IDI and the cheapest to own is the ranger then the efi 460(cheap to buy and just put gas in and no worries)
You answered your own question in the remainder of your post
And the point I'm making is that you can't lump all diesels together and that the reason YOU don't find IDIs cost effective is cause you dump more money in them then is anywhere near necessary.
Who is lumping all diesels together/? YOU? As a general rule of thumb, YES diesel do get grouped together. they run on the same fuel have the same maintenance schedule and have about the same lifer expectancy. But they do have their own problems and pluses
But I'm sure you paid a lot for that power and reliability. Would it be worth it to everyone and more important the OP? My answer is of course no, not everyone has the same goals, needs, and loose wallet as you.
I buy used 4wd powerstrokes typically for 1000-1500. The gassers people seem top hold onto because they are afraid of the PDS. It does NOT mean they are worth more or easier to work on. If 1500 is a lot for a used 4wd truck that is street legal, then I must be shopping in the wrong places.
Can we stop hijacking the OPs thread now?
A EFI is in no way more expensive to fix. Just because YOU are untrained, doesn't not mean that everyone is
"unreliable" is a relative term, in this case yes a PS is more unreliable then an IDI just like a EFI 460 is more unreliable then a carbureted 460. They are all generally reliable, we aren't talking about 80s jags here or anything. But yes, some are more reliable then others.
Please, explain to me how a PSD is unreliable compared to an IDI or how EFI is unreliable to a Carb?
What does that matter, I don't have to own a thing to know that a don't want to own a thing, that would just be stupid. To know what I'm talking about I don't have to make all my own mistakes and can learn from others experience.
I have over and currently own a Carb 460, and efi 460, an IDI and several PSDs. The Most unreliable one being the IDI and the cheapest to own is the ranger then the efi 460(cheap to buy and just put gas in and no worries)
You answered your own question in the remainder of your post
And the point I'm making is that you can't lump all diesels together and that the reason YOU don't find IDIs cost effective is cause you dump more money in them then is anywhere near necessary.
Who is lumping all diesels together/? YOU? As a general rule of thumb, YES diesel do get grouped together. they run on the same fuel have the same maintenance schedule and have about the same lifer expectancy. But they do have their own problems and pluses
But I'm sure you paid a lot for that power and reliability. Would it be worth it to everyone and more important the OP? My answer is of course no, not everyone has the same goals, needs, and loose wallet as you.
I buy used 4wd powerstrokes typically for 1000-1500. The gassers people seem top hold onto because they are afraid of the PDS. It does NOT mean they are worth more or easier to work on. If 1500 is a lot for a used 4wd truck that is street legal, then I must be shopping in the wrong places.
Can we stop hijacking the OPs thread now?
#88
01-27-2014, 08:02 AM
The Diesel I sold was a 97 Powestroke,and like I said it cost a LOT too take care of compared to my 94 460 efi,parts are way more expensive in everything with the Powersroke.My dad has the idi and it is a lot less expensive to maintain and I dont care what anybody says Powestrokes are not worth the money.Go over to the Powerstroke section in this forum and see how many problems they have with them on a constant basis,speaks for itself.
#89
01-27-2014, 08:46 PM
460, PS, they are both good motors. A 460 is cheap to repair. A powerstroke is not. Get a quote on injectors or O-rings or harness or sensors and see how fast you start adding digits.
I think PS is a great engine and so is the idi and 460 but I could build a 460 with the cost of injectors and turbo on a PS so it is defiantly harder on your wallet when they do break which all motors due.
I think PS is a great engine and so is the idi and 460 but I could build a 460 with the cost of injectors and turbo on a PS so it is defiantly harder on your wallet when they do break which all motors due.
#90
01-27-2014, 08:50 PM
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they may not be fast,but a 300-6/f350 is most likely the most economical setup one could ever ask for.the old gals are known to last just as long as the diesels between remans too.this is the only gas option id pick if i didn't go diesel.
i know there's a lot of 460 fans here,and they're fine truck im sure (never owned one.) but id go medium duty/diesel before i ran a 460 pickup/cab n chassis.
that dually box 460 f350 shown....he'll be reporting lower mpg's than an f650 diesel.watch.4-6mpg.
i know there's a lot of 460 fans here,and they're fine truck im sure (never owned one.) but id go medium duty/diesel before i ran a 460 pickup/cab n chassis.
that dually box 460 f350 shown....he'll be reporting lower mpg's than an f650 diesel.watch.4-6mpg.