Horrible towing fuel mileage .
#31
07-12-2012, 06:07 PM
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I don't get " around 10 " , I am getting 25% less than that , and I am not " running the snott " out of it . And again , I don't expect 20 mpg (or anywhere NEAR that for that matter )towing anything with it . What I do expect is what my salesman and service writer told me ( and continue to tell me ) I should be getting , and that is not 7.5 mpg
#32
07-12-2012, 06:45 PM
You have stated that you get a lil over 20 mpg empty - correct ? Also I am not sure what towing mog you expect from a half ton turbo'd truck. If you think you wld get better mpg from a diesel 24/7 then go ahead and make that jump. Fuel and maintance will be over Twice as high as the EB. IMHO
#33
07-13-2012, 11:10 AM
I'll repeat myself, just because no one acknowledged the idea.
Hook up an OBD-II scan tool and see what it going on. If the parameters make sense, then so be it, the EB should not be used to tow without significant mileage penalty.
If something is out of line, it should be apparent.
What is so difficult about this? Am I missing something?
tom
Hook up an OBD-II scan tool and see what it going on. If the parameters make sense, then so be it, the EB should not be used to tow without significant mileage penalty.
If something is out of line, it should be apparent.
What is so difficult about this? Am I missing something?
tom
#34
07-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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I don't have , or know anyone that does , an OBD II scan tool . And will repeat myself as well , since no one seems to read the posts ( one fellow telling me how much more expensive it will be to buy a super-duty diesel , where was that ever brought up ?) , I have been told that FORD WILL NOT LOOK AT FUEL ECONOMY ISSUES BEFORE THE 5K MILEAGE MARK .
I realize now that I made a mistake even asking a question in this forum . Sorry I didn't acknowledge you suggestion quicker , but I do know , so you don't have to trouble yourself any further .
I don't know how to state it any more planely . I DO expect a significant fuel economy reduction while towing , after 30 years of working with Caterpillar engines , I am familiar with turbocharged engine and know that turbocharging is NOT a magic wand that will make my V6 able to pull a D10 across the continent on a thimble full of gas. And again , that being said , I have heard from many various sources ( some from my dealership , and even on this thread from the fellow who does the 5-star tuners ) that it is not unreasonable to expect better than 7 - 7-1/2 .
I guess maybe I am missing something , it seems to me that there is some middle ground in there SOMEWHERE ( between the extremes of 7mpg and 21mpg) , but from the replies I get it seems that the concensus here is that I should be glad that I am getting what I am getting and that I am nuts for expecting 21 mpg towing a trailer ( which I have never expected even HINTED expecting ) .
At 5k miles , if it hasnt improved , I will take it to my dealer , and request them to look at it , as they said they would . And then we will see where to go from there . Both people I have dealt with at the dealer have said that I should be doing much better , and after going through their process , I will address it with them if it is not improved . My question to them will be , "You have stated on more than one occasion that this is much worse than what you expected , and if it does not meet YOUR expectations , then what do you think MY take on the situation should be? "
I am a longtime customer there, they know I am not a "problem" customer , while at the same time knowing that I am not the kind to be brushed off .
Only time ( and miles ) will tell.
I realize now that I made a mistake even asking a question in this forum . Sorry I didn't acknowledge you suggestion quicker , but I do know , so you don't have to trouble yourself any further .
I don't know how to state it any more planely . I DO expect a significant fuel economy reduction while towing , after 30 years of working with Caterpillar engines , I am familiar with turbocharged engine and know that turbocharging is NOT a magic wand that will make my V6 able to pull a D10 across the continent on a thimble full of gas. And again , that being said , I have heard from many various sources ( some from my dealership , and even on this thread from the fellow who does the 5-star tuners ) that it is not unreasonable to expect better than 7 - 7-1/2 .
I guess maybe I am missing something , it seems to me that there is some middle ground in there SOMEWHERE ( between the extremes of 7mpg and 21mpg) , but from the replies I get it seems that the concensus here is that I should be glad that I am getting what I am getting and that I am nuts for expecting 21 mpg towing a trailer ( which I have never expected even HINTED expecting ) .
At 5k miles , if it hasnt improved , I will take it to my dealer , and request them to look at it , as they said they would . And then we will see where to go from there . Both people I have dealt with at the dealer have said that I should be doing much better , and after going through their process , I will address it with them if it is not improved . My question to them will be , "You have stated on more than one occasion that this is much worse than what you expected , and if it does not meet YOUR expectations , then what do you think MY take on the situation should be? "
I am a longtime customer there, they know I am not a "problem" customer , while at the same time knowing that I am not the kind to be brushed off .
Only time ( and miles ) will tell.
#36
07-13-2012, 01:43 PM
I bought a scan tool for $50 or near that price from Harbor Freight. May not be professional grade, but I don't use it daily. You may be able to find one for less if you look, especially on craiglist and at pawn shops. Many tools are considered 'flexible' by their owners, and they'll shed them at the drop of a hat. My own, I tend to keep.
I have driven a few U-haul and Ryder trucks across country, and was told they'd get no better than 4-6 mpg. I guess I am just not willing to believe you can't do better, and I did. When climbing a hill, for example, no matter how much you push on the go pedal, it's just not going to go any faster than 43mph. You can back off to half throttle, and it'll keep going at that speed. I am not lecturing to you, please, just pointing out that some operators are ignorant, not dumb or stupid, but ignorant of the various things you can do to improve consumption. By the way, I think I got close to 10 mpg, or a bit better. It was back in the middle 70's when a 454 big block was putting out 200hp or similar due to lowered compression and emissions controls that were not developed as well as they are today. These were the largest that they rented to 'civilians'.
Hope your dealership will put a 'recorder' on your machine, and get a snapshot of your truck under load. If they go that far, they can record some number of minutes(?) of data while the engine is under towing demand, and then download the data for analysis.
Maybe you should be talking to the zone rep., as they seem to have more discretion.
tom
I have driven a few U-haul and Ryder trucks across country, and was told they'd get no better than 4-6 mpg. I guess I am just not willing to believe you can't do better, and I did. When climbing a hill, for example, no matter how much you push on the go pedal, it's just not going to go any faster than 43mph. You can back off to half throttle, and it'll keep going at that speed. I am not lecturing to you, please, just pointing out that some operators are ignorant, not dumb or stupid, but ignorant of the various things you can do to improve consumption. By the way, I think I got close to 10 mpg, or a bit better. It was back in the middle 70's when a 454 big block was putting out 200hp or similar due to lowered compression and emissions controls that were not developed as well as they are today. These were the largest that they rented to 'civilians'.
Hope your dealership will put a 'recorder' on your machine, and get a snapshot of your truck under load. If they go that far, they can record some number of minutes(?) of data while the engine is under towing demand, and then download the data for analysis.
Maybe you should be talking to the zone rep., as they seem to have more discretion.
tom
#37
07-13-2012, 01:56 PM
I know people want to make excuses for the EB engine on why they don't get good milage pulling a trailer. The first thing they say is "but it has more power!" My EB is 17,000miles old and I keep my B set on total miles driven since January which included a trip from Arkansas to Copper Mountain to ski. One trip to Kansas pulling a 3500 aero trailer full of furniture. My average MPG is 14. Since I returned from Kansas, my A odo reads 15.7 of which is mostly city driving. I have had it flashed in February when I got back from Colorado and complained about the milage, and it really didn't make a difference. I have had from day one a shudder when idling and a rough transmission shift when I take off from a rolling stop. The flash seemed to have solved the transmission problem.
In other forums, 150 Forum, talk has been centered around moister in the turbo's; using ethanol free gas; keeping the rpm's below 2000, among others. Frankly, I'm NOT going to put more expensive fuel in my EB just to make it get better MPG, that defeats the purpose of having an EB engine. Cost of operation has always been my decision to purchase a EB to begin with. I traded a 2009 King Ranch 5.4 that got 14.5 MPG on the very same trip to Colorado, but in deep snow for 300 miles in 4x4 mode in 2010! Hell I wished I would of kept my KR.
Now I'm considering trading my EB to a F250 6.7. I know the fuel costs are more and you have to add urea to the x-haust at $15 a quart, but the general consensus is that most people are getting 18 mpg routinely around town. I do a fair amount of towing, nothing over 7000#. The 250 rides better, is more quiet and has mucho torque compared to the EB.
I hate chasing better gas milage by switching vehicles, but I really placed a lot of faith in the EB and it seems that I have been greatly disappointed.
In other forums, 150 Forum, talk has been centered around moister in the turbo's; using ethanol free gas; keeping the rpm's below 2000, among others. Frankly, I'm NOT going to put more expensive fuel in my EB just to make it get better MPG, that defeats the purpose of having an EB engine. Cost of operation has always been my decision to purchase a EB to begin with. I traded a 2009 King Ranch 5.4 that got 14.5 MPG on the very same trip to Colorado, but in deep snow for 300 miles in 4x4 mode in 2010! Hell I wished I would of kept my KR.
Now I'm considering trading my EB to a F250 6.7. I know the fuel costs are more and you have to add urea to the x-haust at $15 a quart, but the general consensus is that most people are getting 18 mpg routinely around town. I do a fair amount of towing, nothing over 7000#. The 250 rides better, is more quiet and has mucho torque compared to the EB.
I hate chasing better gas milage by switching vehicles, but I really placed a lot of faith in the EB and it seems that I have been greatly disappointed.
That said, I hope they get your issues resolved to your satisfaction. It does sound like your mileage is much lower than what you should be getting. Since your frontal area on the trailer is similar to that of the test trailer, I would expect somewhat similar results.
As was mentioned above, you might consider taking it to the next level with a district rep from Ford if the dealer's diagnostics don't meet your expectations or resolve the issue to your satisfaction.
#38
07-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Your MPG does seem excessively low.
The issue of not looking at mpg before 5000 miles makes sense and would for any vehicle. You have the break in of the engine involved as well as things done in the engine and trans controls during the break in that may hurt economy.
It's hard to make a comparison without towing the same trailer on the same route. A lighter camper can tow a lot harder than a heavier boat, at least on the flat.
How much have you repeated this? Have you towed in different weather conditions on different tanks of fuel? Maybe you just got bad luck where a combination of things aligned against you, e.g. engine not well broken in yet, headwind, low tire pressure on trailer, bad load of fuel, running at speed the truck doesn't like, etc. I'm not saying any or all of these conditions are true, just giving some examples. That said I have to agree with Ford that you need to drive it across some varied conditions and get the 5k on it before you can effectively judge it.
A few thoughts on EcoBoost in general...
1)As previously mentioned, turbo gassers tend to be tough on fuel when into the boost which leads to...
2)I think many of you have been mislead by Ford's marketing. (I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. I know the OP said they don't expect 21 mpg towing) Ford has marketed the EcoBoost's economy (mainly the highway MPG) AND it's towing capacity. My opinion on this matter is that many people have mistakenly put both these concepts together to form this idea that the EcoBoost get's great towing MPG.
The concept of the turbo V6 is that is gets you v6 mileage when used like a v6 (low boost). On the flip side, with boost you get V8 power but V8 mileage or near to it is part of the deal. Great concept really. You get to have your cake and eat it too - at least to a point.
The issue of not looking at mpg before 5000 miles makes sense and would for any vehicle. You have the break in of the engine involved as well as things done in the engine and trans controls during the break in that may hurt economy.
It's hard to make a comparison without towing the same trailer on the same route. A lighter camper can tow a lot harder than a heavier boat, at least on the flat.
How much have you repeated this? Have you towed in different weather conditions on different tanks of fuel? Maybe you just got bad luck where a combination of things aligned against you, e.g. engine not well broken in yet, headwind, low tire pressure on trailer, bad load of fuel, running at speed the truck doesn't like, etc. I'm not saying any or all of these conditions are true, just giving some examples. That said I have to agree with Ford that you need to drive it across some varied conditions and get the 5k on it before you can effectively judge it.
A few thoughts on EcoBoost in general...
1)As previously mentioned, turbo gassers tend to be tough on fuel when into the boost which leads to...
2)I think many of you have been mislead by Ford's marketing. (I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. I know the OP said they don't expect 21 mpg towing) Ford has marketed the EcoBoost's economy (mainly the highway MPG) AND it's towing capacity. My opinion on this matter is that many people have mistakenly put both these concepts together to form this idea that the EcoBoost get's great towing MPG.
The concept of the turbo V6 is that is gets you v6 mileage when used like a v6 (low boost). On the flip side, with boost you get V8 power but V8 mileage or near to it is part of the deal. Great concept really. You get to have your cake and eat it too - at least to a point.
#39
07-15-2012, 04:07 PM
Just a few other thoughts here:
1) Have you checked the trailer brakes to make sure they're adjusted properly and not dragging?
2) Have you inspected the bearings / hubs, etc. on the trailer to make certain they're greased and not in need of replacement?
3) Have you checked to make sure the tires are properly inflated on the trailer?
The reason I ask is that any of these could cause additional drag which could also be cutting into your fuel economy.
1) Have you checked the trailer brakes to make sure they're adjusted properly and not dragging?
2) Have you inspected the bearings / hubs, etc. on the trailer to make certain they're greased and not in need of replacement?
3) Have you checked to make sure the tires are properly inflated on the trailer?
The reason I ask is that any of these could cause additional drag which could also be cutting into your fuel economy.
#40
07-15-2012, 10:13 PM
#41
07-16-2012, 10:31 PM
I run and built a few turbo motors in my day and I have come to know a couple of things.
You cannot compare a blown gas motor with a turbo diesel.
And if your gas motor is building bost you are using more fuel. You have to learn to drive out of the boost as much as you can.
When I had my first G32B it made a difference of over 15mpg.
In my 3B Toyota you can have your foot to the floor in a headwind and it really doesn't have that great of effect on economy.
I like the ecoboost and I may buy one for my commute and towing the boat. I'm certain this truck could get over 20 mpg empty and 16-17 pulling my boat. I'm getting 12-14 pulling the boat with my F350 V10.
You cannot compare a blown gas motor with a turbo diesel.
And if your gas motor is building bost you are using more fuel. You have to learn to drive out of the boost as much as you can.
When I had my first G32B it made a difference of over 15mpg.
In my 3B Toyota you can have your foot to the floor in a headwind and it really doesn't have that great of effect on economy.
I like the ecoboost and I may buy one for my commute and towing the boat. I'm certain this truck could get over 20 mpg empty and 16-17 pulling my boat. I'm getting 12-14 pulling the boat with my F350 V10.
#42
07-25-2012, 07:43 PM
#43
07-26-2012, 06:42 PM
#44
07-26-2012, 09:39 PM
Cargo Master
Were you in tow/haul mode when towing?? Did you lock out any gears? When you say you hauled Cat trailers for that long I inow you know how to check your trailer for all the normal things so i will not bother to comment on that stuff.
Like someone else mentioned there are people that had issues with the sway control constantly applying the brakes (usually during windy conditions) but I think you stated the conditions were not windy. What is the frontal area of your trailer like? With lots of wind resistance you will be in boost a lot therefore using more fuel. Do you have a boost gauge installed?
Like someone else mentioned there are people that had issues with the sway control constantly applying the brakes (usually during windy conditions) but I think you stated the conditions were not windy. What is the frontal area of your trailer like? With lots of wind resistance you will be in boost a lot therefore using more fuel. Do you have a boost gauge installed?
