Here's my conclusion:

The more I read about people having their favorite brands, the more I get confused, so I just decide to change my motor oil (and filter) every 3K-4K miles and don't sweat it.

Here's what led me to the above conclusion:

Because oil companies periodically reformulate their oils by changing to some degree their additive packages and even base oils, who's to say that Brand A is always better than Brand B? Brand A may have been better than brand B last year, but brand B may be better than brand A this year.

I remember Brian A had a great thread on this subject in the past.

P.S. I think Uncle Wally had been investigating me 'cause I buy brand A then return it to buy brand B 'cause I hear it's better. Then I return brand B to pick up brand C because that suppose to be better. Then I return brand C and buy brand A 'cause that is the latest and greatest.

 

Too bad your statements are true. Oil formulations have changed a lot this year alone. If the new proposed GF-4 standards are approved, it's going to get even worse. They are lowering the limits on zinc and phos. Folks with overhead cam engines with the timing gears/chains/belts on the inside of the engine had better stock up on the old SL rated oil. Shearing and sludge is going to be common with these engines. I can only assume that the new formulations will have even more moly and boron for anti-wear/ friction modifiers. It's going to get interesting.

 

Flash,
How soon do you see the GF-4 standards being approved. Would it be wise to stock up on SL oil when the "new" oil comes out?
This oil stuff.....good grief!

 

check out www.bobistheoilguy.com . for dino oil's they recommend chevron supreme, castrol gtx & pennzoil ..for synthetic mobil 1, amsoil & schaffers .. stay way from FRAM filters

 

Could we get away with using SL / CI-4 rated oil? From my understanding it currently isnt GF-3 and wont be GF-4 rated.

 

Thankyou for posting that website, I found the information very useful.

 

Brian,
The new standards were actually set for release this past May. Who knows when they will become a reality or if they become a reality as they are currently being proposed. As most folks already know, the Toyota V6 3.0 is called a sludge monster because of the timing belt at the camshafts. This area has been recorded as running temps in the 240F- 270F range. When the engine was originally designed, there was a considerable amount of zinc and phos that is longer in the oils. Shearing at this area is tremendous. So Toyota has gotten a bad wrap over the API limits. Will the CH-4/CI-4 oils cover our current needs? At this time, everything is in limbo, so who knows at this point. When I know something I'll be posting it here.

 

Flash,
I am familiar with the Toyota/Lexus issue. We bought a used ES-300. I didn't open the filler cap until AFTER we traded. My knees went weak....I knew then that car was a short-timer in our driveway. We got rid of it pretty quickly.
I realize there are, in fact, many good oils out there. I have had good luck with Shell and Chevron. But....what's to come?
Do keep us posted as we wade thru this together.

 

Yes, but CI-4 is due for a major change to "PC-10" to protect the particulate filters and reduction (NOX) catylists due for the next generation of diesel emission standards.

The good news is that the new diesel oil may not be backward compatible. CI-4/SL may be available for a very long time.

Jim

 

Flash, what do you me by 'shearing'. And will this new GF-4 rating apply to synthetic oils such as Mobil 1?

 

Redranger,

Don't worry about GF-4 and it's new Phosporous cap . Many oils are at or near meeting GF4 right now to include the Mobil 1 and Motorcraft's 5/20 and some others . If anything I think we will see at least with dino's all having to use at least group II or group II / III blended basestocks " some currently use a blend of group I and II" and a newer type of zinc like the Motorcraft oil uses. This along with tweeking the additive packs with borate esters will make for a pretty good oil I think for gasoline engines .

One problem with the HD Diesel oils is some of the 10/30 wts are only available in bulk but if not brand loyal other than the Exxon XD3 and the Mobil 1300S I think the 10/30 little brothers to the 15/40's are readily available in most brands.


Here is more on the GF4 spec slated for 2005

http://api-ep.api.org/industry/index...07007000000000

 

I am a self professed gear head that tries to keep my vehicle running as long as possible. Although I drove a Ford product for close to 20 years, I do not have one in my fleet currently. I did have my eye on a low mileage F350 dulie with the 7.3 Navistar but college tuition got in the way. I am a Corvair owner and those of you that remember Mr. Nadar's favorite car also might recall that it was air cooled. Why does this matter? Operating temperature. And those in the know realize that 550 F is not cake walk for a lubricant. Please consider that the API tests gasoline engines oil to 330 F and you get the picture. I believe that diesel oil is rated at higher operating temperatures. I would not swear to it but I think I saw 600 F as the test number. CORSA (Corvair Society of [/FONT][/COLOR]<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1lace>America</st1lace></st1:country-region>) is the largest single mark car club in <st1:country-region><st1lace>America</st1lace></st1:country-region> with close to 5,00o members. A few years back when I lived in <st1:City><st1lace>Toronto</st1lace></st1:City>, we invited the lead engineer for ESSO (The Canadian arm of Exxon/Mobil) to come and speak to us about the merits of motor oil. I recall the discussion like it happened yesterday. The gentleman worked out of their Sarnia, Ontario, Canada lab and he was a lead engineer for global lubricant development and played a role in the development (and reformulation) of Mobil 1. I had a Japanese motorcycle at the time and brought up the question of why the folks at Suzuki did not like automotive oils to be used in the bike. At the time, the motor was a wet sump design that also used the motor oil as the gearbox lubricant. (Talk about shear). So I commented that I had moved away from the factory 10W40 oil recommendation to a diesel rated 15W40 and noticed a great improvement in how my bike shifted. I asked him why. He commented that the expectation of the diesel manufacturer (Cat, Cummins, <st1:City><st1lace>Detroit</st1lace></st1:City>, Caterpillar etc. was for the motor to last a million miles or more. I asked him what changes they made when they formulated the diesel oil and at that time (remember this was a few years back) he stated that <st1:City><st1lace>Detroit</st1lace></st1:City> is and continues to be under a great deal of pressure to improve fuel efficiency. The additive package is heavy on the "friction modifiers" in order to improve gas mileage to meet CAFE. He stated that this was a fact with all "energy conserving" oils but that it was at the expense of anti wear agents. This included zinc and phosphorous. He stated that those anti wear agents were responsible for the improved shifting that I saw in my Suzuki (air cooled) motorcycle. That night the message was made clear to me. Look for diesel oil that also met the top API standard for a gasoline engine. Today that is SM and that is the "qualifier" that I place on the diesel grade of motor oil. As we know, higher viscosities are not known for their cold weather flow characteristics, so I always ensure that I use oil filter with an anti drain valve which includes many such as purolater, motocraft and Mobil 1. If I have a favorite filter it is KN as it is made of heavier material on the case and they also promote the enhanced flow characteristics with "race grade" high viscosity oils. In effect they have the valve, have a casing that is rock resistant and has a nice 1 inch nut welded on the end that allows an easy change when you are working around a skid plate. My son's Chevy Tracker has a skid plate and no room for a convention oil filter wrench when changing the filter from the TOP of the motor. I studied the MFG's web sites and it seems that Delvac has a pour point of -30 F which beats most other 15W40 conventional oils which pour down to -20 F. I spoke to a long distance truck driver who ran a Kenworth with Delvac and he stated that he changed oil every 10,000 miles, used Delvac and got 1.2 million miles out of his first engine - rebuilt it - and got 1.2 million miles out of his rebuild. I met him in an airport and he was flying home as his truck's motor had given up after 2.5 million miles (in total). He was planning to rebuild it again and keep on using Delvac. I asked him if he tested other oils and he said that he ran Rotella but always found the need to add oil between changes. Now I am going to throw you for a loop. Look at the high mileage oils and most of them DO NOT have an energy conserving stamp from the API. I have seen on multiple posts that our friends at Diamler and Honda love the 5W20 oils. I am not a fan of that but I do respect both Companies for their engineering prowess. My solution is to run any SM rated dino diesel rated oil in summer as cold weather flow is not an issue. I then run a blend of 5W20 high mileage Pennzoil (as it dos NOT have the Energy Conserving stamp) which tells me it is heavy in anti wear additives and not friction modifiers. They also advertise a reduction in sludge and I will say that after I switched that first change was black followed by a cleaner oil in the second change although I ALWAYS mix it at a 50% ratio with a diesel oil in my gas motors. Now my fleet is out of factory warranty so if you have a car in warranty, this is not a thing to do as they want any excuse to void the warranty. I do this in winter to improve the cold flow characteristic without the need to use synthetic. I live in CT now and we do see our share of cold weather, I have been doing this for 10 years now and have never seen a problem but will caution you to use a high quality filter. Again K&N is my favorite, go to their web site and you will understand why. I also like the weight of the Mobil 1 filter and they state that it is tested to 9X the normal operating pressure. To me, you can invest in a bypass system, but I just stay with a "long life" synthetic filter with my conventional oil blend. Do not even ask me about a magnetic drain plug, because in my opinion, that should come with every car.<o></o>
Pennzoil 5W20 High Mileage plus SM rated Diesel oil plus a good filter = great wear protection with a manageable cost. Yes I mix and yes it works and I will not stop mixing because I want a 10W30 with a diesel like wear package. I also like Mobil 1 5W40 and sometimes use this as a top up oil, especially in winter.<o></o>

 

Wow, is it Easter Sunday already...?

 

Welcome to the FTE Oil and Lubrication Forum.

Since this is your fist post and it is in reply to a thread several years old, I take it that a Google or other search brought you here?

Anyway, Corvairs are a bit off-topic here, but I am involved with experimental aviation and Corvair-powered aircraft. I can assure you that temperatures dont get that high or the engine only has minutes to live. Oil temps are usually redlined at 250F or so. Cylinder head temps of 475F at the sender port set off the warning light. CHT's of 600F lead to softening of the aluminum and loss of compression and power comes on very rapidly.

Aircraft engines work far harder than any street automobile, 100% power for takeoff and climb and 60-80% in cruise. Cars see peak power for seconds at a time and freeway cruise at closer to 25%. In-flight engine failure is a bit more dramatic than on the ground.

As far as oil is concerned, Rotella T and Delo 400 are the only ones we use. The flash point of 15W-40 oils are typically above 400F.

 

If so, I wish he'd bring me some paragraphs.