converting 6 volt to 12 volt
 

We are wanting to change our f4 6 volt system to a 12 volt system. It has a flathead 6 if that matters. Can anybody tell me where I can get a 12 volt generator that will work. I can only find 6 volt generators for the 48's. Also if anybody has any pointers on what I need to do to convert this system, that information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help on this. Glenn

blocker boys customs

no one ever takes the time to read the "Read First - FAQ and More" section... oh wait, I did the same thing when I first joined! DO'OH!

As for the generator, go buy a high amp output alternator and remove the voltage regulator. Or if you put in the hallogen head lamps you can put the relays in the regulator housing.

Hi Glenn,

This sbject comes up quite frequently, and for those of us who have spent a lot of time on the site, we know where all the little tidbits are and how to find them. But I haven't been here so long that I have forgotten how difficult navigating this site can be at times.

The link in the quote above will send you to some generic electrical drawings I drew up when I rewired my 51 F1. Most folks find them helpful and they will work on just about everything that had real wiring.

I would suggest that there are TONS of prior discussions about 12 Volt conversions, some of the little quirks that folks have found, and just about everything you should need from an info standpoint.

I would go to the main page for this forum and in the "Search this Forum" box type in "12 Volt Conversion" (be sure to include the quotation marks. Our search function has become almost disfunctional with the last site upgrade but yo ushould be able to find a lot of posts. If yo uhave a problem, come back and I'll see if I can find them and either cut an past the info into a post for you or paste down some links. And if yo uhave any questions, I'll be back to help.

There are a number of growing options for your generator. You should be able to buy a 12 volt generator at any NAPA or Kragen. You will need a matching 12 volt Voltage regulator and will need to polarize the field of the generator after it is installed but before starting the engine. That is a simple procedure where you simply remove the wire from the field terminal of the regulator and momentarily touch it to the battery terminal of the regulator - then reconnect it.

I agree with the folks above though. If you are going to the expense of putting on a new charging system - I'd recommend an alternator instead of a generator, and get an alternator that is of the variety that has an internal regulator - the proverbial "one wire" alternator. This will negate all the wiring over to a regulator and is very reliable. GM alternators are built this way, and there are other restoration shops that carry them - such as LMC, Tuff Stuff, and others.

For your conversion, you will need to change all your iginition parts (coil, condenser, points) you should (but I've heard you dont necessarily have to) change out your starter and starter solenoid. If yo uhave electric wipers you will need a 12 volt wiper switch (but you probably have vacuum wipers) and if yo have a heater, yo uwill need to install a "Vol-ta-drop" to reduce your new 12 volts back down to 6 volts for you r heater - as 12 volt heater motors are not available for the Magic Air heaters (but ARE available for others). If you get a 12 volt heater motor you will need to get a switch matched to the motor. Replace the cigar lighter with a 12 volt unit. All of your light bulbs will need to be replaced. and you will need to put resistors on the backs of your original gauges to get them to work right - the conversion is simple and effective. All the rest of your switches will work fine through the conversion.

I just checked the search function using "12 Volt Conversion" and all the posts showed up. So, just go there and pick the one that seems applicable. If you decide to go with a one wire or GM type alternator, let us know and I have links to installations procedures as well.

Welcome to FTE and have fun!

PS When yo ulook at teh titles of the threads that come up from your search, and some of th etitles seem a little weird like "Fordomatic Transmission" or "56 Wiring Harness" be sure to look at those as well. VERY OFTEN we get off on tangents, or the conversation evolves into wiring situations. Also remember that the wiring in these truck with rare exception is VERY fundamental and almost all th esame between models and years - this is especially true of the Bonus Built Trucks (48-52)

12v conversion
 

Thanks Julie and Vette,
Yea I guess I should have tried to do a search first. It's just that it seems like every time I've done a search for something on these sites I get everything but what I'm looking for. I didn't try to search on this site, I guess I should have given it a try first, Sorry y'all.
Wow, Julie you gave some great advice and tips. Thanks for the info. I will do a search like you advised.
I was kinda wanting to go back with a generator because I put a new stock type wiring harness in it and was wanting to have the stock look. I would lose the voltage regulator if I used an altenator. I had thought of getting one of those "PowerGen" generators from "Mac's" that has altenator insides but looks like a generator on the outside and hooking up a dummy regulator. Anyway, I'll do some more research on this and see what I come up with. Thanks again for all the good help. Glenn

Blocker boys customs

after rereading my post it sounds rude, but wasn't intended that way but as a joke with myself as the pun. I apologize if it was taken as an afront.

oh, and I agree the search option sucks, it would be nice it it would limit its search to the year specific forum posts instead of searching the entire site.

To expand upon what Julie said above, if you dont go with an electonic ignition (distributor) and/or a high dollar ignition coil you will need to put a ballast resistor in front of your coil or it will burn out. Most 12v coils do not actually handle 12v but like 8.5v or less; i ended up replacing a brand new coil after I cooked it.

No apology neccesary Vette. No offense taken. We are going to put a pointless distributor in this truck so the advice about the coil will come in handy. I hadn't had a chance to read all the posts that I pulled up with my seach yet. I'll do that when I get home tonight. I'm too busy during the day. Thanks again for all the good help. Glenn

Blocker boys customs

Hi Guys,

Yeah they changed the search software so now instead of not working sometimes, it's just completely worthless.

Usually I will try to post a couple links to help point folks rather than refering them to the search function. But at the moment, I am going back through my posts (all 1800 of them) trying to find the applicable links and save them to favorites to post for folks - because the search function is now useless.

There is a company I got my "one wire" alternator from called "Tuff Stuff." I can't say enough good things about them. But also, there is a company that now builds Alternators in cases that look just like the longer generators you see on the stock engines. LMC has started to carry the same type of product, but I don't have any feedback on quality of those yet (and they don't show them online only in the printed catalogue). I would definately go alternator and definately go "one wire" (internal regulator).

Here area few links to vendors that might be of help:

Products :: Tuff Stuff Performance

Powermaster PowerGEN Alternator - Ford Flathead 1939-48 - 75 Amp - Black Finish 82011*-*Powermaster PowerGEN Alternators*-*Alternators*-*Alternators, Batteries and Switches*-*Ignition and Electrical*-*Vic Hubbard Speed & Marine

Also, just as a side note, I have a 390 in my F1 with an MSD "Drop and Drive" electronic distributor - and I love it. It still uses a stock coil (use a Pertronix Flame Thrower) but no ballast resister with electronic set ups (as Vette indicated).

12 volt conversion
 

Thanks for all the cool links Julie. I think we are going with the "PowerGEN" altenator from Dennis Carpenter. I've got a couple more questions. If I hook up a one wire alt what do I do for a gauge. Will I have to run a different gauge. I'm not going to be able to run it through the original Amp gauge am I? And if I can run it through the amp gauge, do I run it through a volt step down resistor like the rest of the gauges. Also. Since I'm not running a generator and voltage regualtor can I just bundle all those wires together and tape them to the harness. I don't guess all the bare wire ends touching each other will hurt anything will it? Thanks in advance for all the help. Sorry for all the questions. I'm a bodyman more than a electrician.

in my opinion you can use the original amp meter as it is really just reading the EMF off the line to identify the amperage of the current in the line and isn't actually connected to draw power. I do recall reading something a few months back that said to make sure and run the wire thru the loop on the back side of the gauge in the opposite direction or the gauge will show - when charging. But i've been wrong a lot lately

No problem on the questions - that's why we are here. But I think if you have less than 25 posts, questions are $1 after the first 10.

Actually, your current Amp guage will work just fine. It's not really an amp gauge but rather a "flow meter" that mearly shows "charge" and "discharge." It uses an induction loop to sense the electricity as it flows through the wire - in either direction.

So, when you wire in your your one wire alternator, the wire from the alternator would be hooked up to the place where you distribute power out to things (it might be the ingnition switch, fuse blocks, etc, then through the loop on the back of the gauge, to the battery terminal of the starter solenoid (which is also connected to the positive battery cable in your 12 volt/negative ground conversion).

In a GM electrical system, the battery is the main hot power distribution point and is charged directly. In the older Ford systems, the main power distribution point is that Battery post on the starter solenoid, and the battery (after starting) is treated as another peripheral simply to be charged or drawn upon as necessary.

When the alternator is charging properly, there will be enough electricity to power the accessories from the distribution point, and have extra to flow to charge the battery if it needs it, via the path I just described. Then the gauge will show a charge.

If the battery is fully charged, then the gauge will remain neutral.

If there is some type of failure of the generator/alternator to produce (like a broken belt) then the electricity will be drawn from the battery(causing th epower to flow in the opposite direction from normal) to power the items being used, and the gauge will show a discharge.

And this should be pretty much how the wiring is set up now - depending on how much of a conversion/possible rewire you will be doing.

The only caveat is that since you are converting to 12 volt, it will also convert from positive ground to negative ground, the wire running through the induction loop has to be routed through the loop in the opposite direction.

As far as the extra wiring in your harness, yes you can just remove the old regulator, cut the ends off the wires and cap them seperately with some type of insulated connector. You never want to leave bare wire ends exposed - never.

The wire that is attached to the "B" or battery post of your voltage regulator, is currently hooked up to your distribution point - ITS HOT!. If you leave it exposed it will short big time for sure. And actually, if it's convenient, you can use that wire to hook up to the one wire from the alternator, and that will complete the circuit as I described above (except the direction of the wire running through your guage loop).

The wire carrying power from the alternator should be 10Ga.

Edit note: Link-vette and I were typing these two answers at the same time.

um... mine was quicker.. and shorter... and not even close to being as useful.... Have you ever considered taking all of your posts and turning it into a how to and problem solving book? Could be a New York Times best seller!

12 volt conversion
 

Wow, thats a lot of good info, and quick too. Thanks for all the help guys and girls. This has been such a big help to us.
Julie, I'm impressed. You're so knowlegable about all this stuff. It's hard to find a lady who knows and cares about truck stuff. I think I'm falling in love. Lol, just joking Julie. Please don't take me serious. I do appreciate all the help. If I run past 10 questions will you take a credit card, lol.
Thanks again, Glenn
blocker boys customs

Wow what a concept! I'd be like Helouis, but for trucks - Julieouise :-missingt

Actually, with the new search engine being so worthless and such a waste of time, I took a couple days and went back through my posts and other discussions (all 1900 of them) to some of the more applicable posts and saved them to favorites, I also copied most of the picutres out of the Salesmans handbook and Chassis Parts Catalogue to be able to refere to them quickly and post them in new threads....

I guess that's close to the same same thing!

I could do that I guess, but that's a lot of work I don't need to do because I'm gonna be rich - blockerboy is giving me his credit card number! :eek:

step down reducers
 

Hey everyone, It's me again with another question. I just got the voltage step down reducers for the gauges and I just want to make sure I'm hooking these things up right. On the back of the gauge panel it's got a bar that connects all three gauges together and a single wire that runs from each gauge. Do I hook a reducers to each one of those single wires? Thanks in advance for any help on this. Glenn

Hi Glenn,

Nope! If you used the same one I did, there should be a diagram in the instructions (not bein gintentionally snide) that shows the parallel hook up.

Basically power flowed into one of the original gauges (TEMP I think)from the "ACC" post of the Ignition Switch, then it was passed to the Oil Pressure and Gas Gauges via the metal shunt.

Power then flowed through each gauge and out via the wire to each individual sending unit. The sending unit was a variable resistor that varried voltage to ground as the temp/pressure/or float level changed.

For your little resistors, you will need to replace the shunt with a jumper wire coming in from what ever powers your gauges now (probably still the ACC post on the ignition switch if you didn't rewire).

As I recall, one (specific) end of the resistor is bolted down to the gauge where the shunt used to be. The little wire on the resistor is connected to ground (like to one of the screws that secure the gauge to the panel). The other end of the resistor is connected to "Power In."

In the case where you are using three units (Oil; Temp; and Gas) you simply run a jumper wire from "power in" post on the first resistor to the "power in' post on the second and then the third.

I'll post this now in case you are really motivated and workin gon it today, and I'll draw you up a diagram and post it in an hour or so!

step down voltage reducers
 

Thanks for all the good info Julie, My gauges only have two posts on the back of them. The bar shunt hooks all them together with one of the posts and the other post have an individual wire going to the wiring harness from each gauge. So if I'm understanding you correctly I'll remove the bar shunt and hook a reducer to each gauge, in series. I suspect those other wires that run from each gauge to the harness are the wires that run to the sending units and I leave them alone. Am I anything close to being right?? Sorry if I'm so hard to get to understand how to do this. I'm a paint and body man not and electrician. Give me a hammer, a gallon of bondo and some paint and I'll make it pretty again, give me a handfull of wires and I'll burn something down. Glenn

"Damn it Jim, I'm a Doctor not a paleontologist"

sorry, sometimes it just comes out.

Lol, how about a psychiatrist. Is there a psychiatrist in the house!!!

NOTE TO ALL:

THE WIRING DIAGRAM LISTED IN POST 16 ABOVE IS INCORRECT (I TRIED TO DO IT TOO QUICKLY AND WILL ATTEMPT TO GET IT REMOVED). PLEASE USE THE ONE LISTED ON THIS POST BELOW!

Hi Glenn,

No problemo, and yes you are VERYclose to being right (gauge power will be in parallel not series). The gauge does have only two posts on the back of it. The resistor should have a hole on one end, a post of it's own on the other on the other, and a little pigtail wire with a connector on the end of it. Here's a picutre:

Attachment 15347

Here is a step by step procedure:

1. Disconnect the battery negative cable from the battery.

Note: On the back of each gauge itself there will be only two posts with nuts. One has a wire on it, the other has the power bridge (metal shunt). Each gauge is secured to the instrument panel by two screws.

Attachment 15348

This is a 51/52 gauge cluster. The square object
to the left are the circuit breakers used in the
original power distribution. Although shaped
differently, the gauges are the same, mounted
the same (mechanically) and wired the same
(electrically) on the 48-50 and 53-55 trucks.


2. Disconnect the individual wire on the back of each gauge that goes to the sending unit and LABEL IT.

3. Remove the nuts holding down the metal shunts and remove the shunts. Save the nuts - toss the shunts.

4. Install one voltage reducer (the "power in" side if it's labelled - might just be the open hole) on each gauge post where the shunt was connected.

5. Install the nut that used to hold down the shunt over the reducer to hold it on the stud - but leave it loose.

6. Loosen one screw that is securing the gauge in the cluster panel, slip the little pigtail wire connector attached to the reducer under it and tighten the screw. This provides a ground for the reducer.

7. Position the reducer so it is tucked in a good place over the top of the gauge and (carefully)tighten the nut holding it to the post that you installed it on earlier.

8. Connect a power supply wire to the open "Power in" stud on one reducer.

9. Connect a jumper wire from the stud on the first reducer (that has the power supply wire on it) to the same post on the second reducer, then on to the same post on the third reducer.

10. Reconnect the correct harness wire from the appropriate sending unit to the open stud on the gauge (the stud the reducer is not connected to).

11. Reconnect your battery ground cable.

Attachment 15349

Should work fine then.

Julie, thank you, thank you, thank you. I have finally seen the light. I got this project under control. You couldn't have explained it any better than that. Thanks for the diagrams and help. Now I know what I need to do. When I get this truck done I promise I'll post some pictures of it. It's turning out great. Thanks Glenn

Super!

Don't hesitate to ask about anything!

Julie you've been so nice and so helpful I hate to do this but I've got just one more tiny little itsy bitsy question. I went to hook up the wires to the ignition switch and noticed there are no markings on the back of the switch telling me which terminals are for what. The diagram that came with the wiring harness tells me what wires hook to which terminals but since the terminal aren't marked, I'm lost again. I tried to post a picture of the back of the switch but couldn't figure out how to do it. If you're looking at the switch from the back, after it is installed, it has one post that is longer than the rest which is positioned to the middle left side of the switch, then you have a shorter one to the upper right of that and another short one to the lower right. I would appreciate any help that I can get on this. Thanks in advance for any help. Glenn

:-hair Wow! most of us would never admit something like that. :-missingt

AFA the search function: don't bother with the basic search box, click on the advanced search and search from there. Drill down in the "search in forums" box and highlight this forum so you don't get stuff that doesn't pertain to our trucks. You can also/or specify to search on a user name, so if you are looking for electrical info that didn't come up in your search on "electrical" you might do a search for posts by "Julies Cool F1". (be sure that you have put in the user's name EXACTLY as they have it, including spaces and capitalizations)
If you want to find info on 6V to 12V conversions only, use quotes around the phrase thusly: "6V to 12V conversions" as the keyword and you'll get results that have that whole phrase somewhere in it. If you leave off the quotes, you'll get results that has any PART of the phrase in it, so you'll get hits on 6V, 12V, and/or conversions (of all types, such as engine, AC, power steering, model, etc. conversions). You don't have to put something in every box on the advance search page, but the more parameters you put in the more specific the results will be.

Oh boy, it's always those itsy bitsy electrical questions that kill ya - sigh :-missingt

Adding to what AX said, check out my galleries...all of my electrical drawings are there in gallery #4

Ok so let me review....we are working on a 1948? I think? And there's no labels on the back of the switch?????? Hmmmm???? Not even a "B" and "A" or and "I" That's really weird - there should be. :confused: Could you check again for me - look really close.

Ok another question for you (because this may not be a stock switch). How many posts are there on the back 3 or 4?

If there are 4 it is not a stock switch. But, I can tell you the one in the center is to turn the starter over.

Let me know and I'll try and sort it out for you. :-banghead

PS Hey Blocker, send me the picture of the back of the switch directly to: babbiebuddie at cox.net (no gaps in the address and sub the "at" for @ - ya gotta manipulate th eaddresses in the posts or they get pulled)

ignition switch
 

Thanks again Julie,
When I took a couple more good pictures to send you i was able to zoom in and see some small writing that I couldn't make out before. I do see some letters next to the terminals. It looks like the letters, GA, AM, RAD. I'll still me email you the picture and let you tell me what goes to what. Thanks a bunch. Glenn

HI Glenn,

I got your picture and it is a stock 48 ignition switch.

OK I think I’ve figured out the hook-ups- the GA gave it away .

The GA/RAD post is for your accessories and would be the “ACC” post on any other switch. It goes over to power your temp, oil, and gas gauges, and if you installed a radio, power for it would come from this post as well. Take a look at the diagram that I attached.

One of the other two posts should have an “I” or a “C” for ignition or coil; and the last one should have a “P” or a “B” for power or battery. That last wire – power or battery comes off the “BATT” post of the 30 amp circuit breaker – which in the other direction runs out to the “Batt” post on your voltage regulator.

The wire running off the “I” or “C” post of the switch runs straight out to the coil.

If you look at the back of the switch and put the post that says GA/RAD up at the 12 o’clock position, clockwise from there, the first post (at about 4 o’clock) should be power in (Batt, P,or B) and then continuing clockwise, the third post should be “I” or “C” and goes out to the coil.

I sent these to you via e-mail but thought I'd post them for everyone else:

Attachment 15399

Here's the signal flow - ignition switch is on lower left of drawing (thanks Bob)

Attachment 15397



:):):):):):):):):):):):)

If yo uhave electric wipers you will need a 12 volt wiper switch

Julie why would you need to change the wiper switch? Could you put a Volt-A-Drop and keep the current switch? Also when changing out the lights that would include the instrument lights, correct?

Thanks

julie,thanks for the step by step.like blockerboyscusttoms,i have yet to understand how to use this forum.i have a 50merc m-68,first i just want to get it on the road so i can drive it.i would like to do this conversion,i think it would be much better in the cold of alberta winters.do you or anyone else have any yah or nay on the IVR voltage reducer?i found this site somewhere(??????)and he said for 5 buck in parts for radio shack he made his own reducer.i think it was called ..cristoohers 66 mustang retorstion and modification.i dont know how to post a kink or even a piture on here or i would put up for you to check out,if you havent already.

thanks

one more question,is there something besides the chev one wire i could use?the thought of putting anything chev in or on my truck makes me ill.

thanks again

Vintage tin---don't know about making the reducer other than to say voltage reduction usually results in heat dissipation off of a resistor so be careful with the homemade stuff. I used the individual step downs for the gauges on my '49 M-47 with great success and I know Mid-Fifty sells units that will handle larger amp loads.

As to the alternator, it killed me too, but the GM 10 SI three wire was such an easy set up that it made no sense to do otherwise. The one wire apparently works well too, but I don't like the idea of revving my cold flathead for the sake of a couple of other electrical connections. That said, most any alternator you can make a bracket for will work (don't forget the regulator if it's not internal like the GM) or you can spend big $$ and buy a generator look a like that bolts right in.

I want the option to go 100% stock someday but in the meantime, 12 volts is a really nice "non intrusive" kind of upgrade. Consider the GM alternator as a "temporary expediancy". I don't think anyone here will fault you for that!

Ryan

thanks ryan.is that a nice way of saying "shut up and just do it"? just kidding,the way you put it makes total scents.maybe i will just spray a ford logo on it to make myself feel better.

Wow this one kind of popped up after being dormant for awhile - and with lots of questions.

First wiper switches. If you have a 6 volt wiper motor and switch, you can keep that and use it with a 12 volt conversion and use a vol-ta-drop. But you can't mix motch a 12 volt motor with a 6 volt switch, etc. The switch has to match the motor, and normally has to be made for that particular motor for the parking functions to work correctly. There are, of course, exceptions, but for now that is the best way to go.

As far as an alternator is concerned, there are lots of non GM one wire options. The later Ford paroducts used one wire and I found a great company called "Tuff Stuff" that actually built my chrome one wire alternator because I had an interference problem where it was mounted. It was about $125 a couple years ago as I recall. Here is the link to the site:

http://www.tuffstuffperformance.com/...asp?partid=140

Also, LMC is starting to carry generator look alternators that I believe are one wire but not 100% positive. You might check them out as well.

Lastly, I don't have any data on the reducer you mentioned. I use the Vol-ta-drop on my truck to power one las 6 volt accessory - my Magic Air Heater - because 12 volt motors are not available and it's an "off" size. I also used a vol-ta-drop on my 55 to use the 6 volt overdrive transmission and have always found them to be reliable and do the job. They've been around a long time and have a good reliable reputation. So, I haven't looked at other products - I tend to stick with the things I know are dependable and safe.

I also use the individual gauge reducers. I got some feedback on the reducer that is the single unit that reduces all the gauges. Seems it gets hot enough to melt wire insulation that might be touching it. I guess you could use a vol-ta-drop there too but that's a lot of bulk just for gauges.

I'll add to this one a little bit. There are higher amp rated electronic reducers available for the wiper and heater motors. Mid-Fifty has them for $63. These electronic jobbies are awesome. Mine hasn't been getting hot, like Julie mentioned, but I only have one installed, and only on the gas gauge. I will be adding the bigger electronic one for my original 6 volt wipers, though. I'm going to replace my heater with a 12 volt motor, only becasue the switch is dead, and if I'm gonna change the switch, I'm gonna change the motor. A lot of places talk bad about the porcelain volta-a-drops, but I'm with Julie. They have been around for several decades, and I've never seen a rig have a problem with using them.

http://chris66dad.tripod.com/id29.html
if i did this right ,this is the link to the IVR.please check it out and see what you think.some feed back would be great.

Roy, can this wiring setup be also used for the wipers? If so, do you need to put more than one in the circut.

Julie, I have a 6 volt wpier for my 52. How many Volt-A-Drop units do I need to get the correct voltage for the wiper system?

retro.i dont know,that why i was trying to get some one to read this link.he did say he needed to make a couple more of these,so i think you would need one for each gauge.but i think you would have to use a heavier version for the wipers.i just happen to come across this and thought it was pretty cool....if it works like this guy says it does.
i dont suggest for anyone to just go and make some of these and put them in your trucks before we get some feed back on them.i think i will make one and try it ...if i can.
sometimes new is good.....sometimes new is VERY bad.

Put a 12 Volt Battery in it - Turn on the key - Whatever smokes needs changed - Repeat until nothing smokes/everything works.:-RTFM

I'm a new guy with a 1952 F1 and a 1953 F100 and I'm rewiring them and found this post. So what sending unit do you use for the temp. and oil pressure ?

If you are using the 6v gauges, and you drop the voltage at the instrument panel, you use the 6v sending units.

Can you use the factory head light switch when converting to 12v????