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Old 04-13-2009, 04:24 PM
blockerboyscustoms blockerboyscustoms is offline
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converting 6 volt to 12 volt

We are wanting to change our f4 6 volt system to a 12 volt system. It has a flathead 6 if that matters. Can anybody tell me where I can get a 12 volt generator that will work. I can only find 6 volt generators for the 48's. Also if anybody has any pointers on what I need to do to convert this system, that information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help on this. Glenn

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Old 04-13-2009, 04:37 PM
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no one ever takes the time to read the "Read First - FAQ and More" section... oh wait, I did the same thing when I first joined! DO'OH!

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Originally Posted by Links_vette View Post
Everyone know's that if there is an electical problem that Julie is the one to ask. Well I asked and she sent me her docs on a 12V conversion. So after asking her permission I put these up on a quick web page so anyone can download the power points without needing to send Julie a request! Hopefully this will give her more time to work on her own projects

Julie's Cool F1 - 12V Conversion Docs

If the page doesn't work, feel free to bother me.
As for the generator, go buy a high amp output alternator and remove the voltage regulator. Or if you put in the hallogen head lamps you can put the relays in the regulator housing.
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:15 PM
Julies Cool F1 Julies Cool F1 is offline
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Hi Glenn,

This sbject comes up quite frequently, and for those of us who have spent a lot of time on the site, we know where all the little tidbits are and how to find them. But I haven't been here so long that I have forgotten how difficult navigating this site can be at times.

The link in the quote above will send you to some generic electrical drawings I drew up when I rewired my 51 F1. Most folks find them helpful and they will work on just about everything that had real wiring.

I would suggest that there are TONS of prior discussions about 12 Volt conversions, some of the little quirks that folks have found, and just about everything you should need from an info standpoint.

I would go to the main page for this forum and in the "Search this Forum" box type in "12 Volt Conversion" (be sure to include the quotation marks. Our search function has become almost disfunctional with the last site upgrade but yo ushould be able to find a lot of posts. If yo uhave a problem, come back and I'll see if I can find them and either cut an past the info into a post for you or paste down some links. And if yo uhave any questions, I'll be back to help.

There are a number of growing options for your generator. You should be able to buy a 12 volt generator at any NAPA or Kragen. You will need a matching 12 volt Voltage regulator and will need to polarize the field of the generator after it is installed but before starting the engine. That is a simple procedure where you simply remove the wire from the field terminal of the regulator and momentarily touch it to the battery terminal of the regulator - then reconnect it.

I agree with the folks above though. If you are going to the expense of putting on a new charging system - I'd recommend an alternator instead of a generator, and get an alternator that is of the variety that has an internal regulator - the proverbial "one wire" alternator. This will negate all the wiring over to a regulator and is very reliable. GM alternators are built this way, and there are other restoration shops that carry them - such as LMC, Tuff Stuff, and others.

For your conversion, you will need to change all your iginition parts (coil, condenser, points) you should (but I've heard you dont necessarily have to) change out your starter and starter solenoid. If yo uhave electric wipers you will need a 12 volt wiper switch (but you probably have vacuum wipers) and if yo have a heater, yo uwill need to install a "Vol-ta-drop" to reduce your new 12 volts back down to 6 volts for you r heater - as 12 volt heater motors are not available for the Magic Air heaters (but ARE available for others). If you get a 12 volt heater motor you will need to get a switch matched to the motor. Replace the cigar lighter with a 12 volt unit. All of your light bulbs will need to be replaced. and you will need to put resistors on the backs of your original gauges to get them to work right - the conversion is simple and effective. All the rest of your switches will work fine through the conversion.

I just checked the search function using "12 Volt Conversion" and all the posts showed up. So, just go there and pick the one that seems applicable. If you decide to go with a one wire or GM type alternator, let us know and I have links to installations procedures as well.

Welcome to FTE and have fun!

PS When yo ulook at teh titles of the threads that come up from your search, and some of th etitles seem a little weird like "Fordomatic Transmission" or "56 Wiring Harness" be sure to look at those as well. VERY OFTEN we get off on tangents, or the conversation evolves into wiring situations. Also remember that the wiring in these truck with rare exception is VERY fundamental and almost all th esame between models and years - this is especially true of the Bonus Built Trucks (48-52)
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:04 AM
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12v conversion

Thanks Julie and Vette,
Yea I guess I should have tried to do a search first. It's just that it seems like every time I've done a search for something on these sites I get everything but what I'm looking for. I didn't try to search on this site, I guess I should have given it a try first, Sorry y'all.
Wow, Julie you gave some great advice and tips. Thanks for the info. I will do a search like you advised.
I was kinda wanting to go back with a generator because I put a new stock type wiring harness in it and was wanting to have the stock look. I would lose the voltage regulator if I used an altenator. I had thought of getting one of those "PowerGen" generators from "Mac's" that has altenator insides but looks like a generator on the outside and hooking up a dummy regulator. Anyway, I'll do some more research on this and see what I come up with. Thanks again for all the good help. Glenn

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Old 04-14-2009, 09:10 AM
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after rereading my post it sounds rude, but wasn't intended that way but as a joke with myself as the pun. I apologize if it was taken as an afront.

oh, and I agree the search option sucks, it would be nice it it would limit its search to the year specific forum posts instead of searching the entire site.

To expand upon what Julie said above, if you dont go with an electonic ignition (distributor) and/or a high dollar ignition coil you will need to put a ballast resistor in front of your coil or it will burn out. Most 12v coils do not actually handle 12v but like 8.5v or less; i ended up replacing a brand new coil after I cooked it.
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:36 AM
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No apology neccesary Vette. No offense taken. We are going to put a pointless distributor in this truck so the advice about the coil will come in handy. I hadn't had a chance to read all the posts that I pulled up with my seach yet. I'll do that when I get home tonight. I'm too busy during the day. Thanks again for all the good help. Glenn

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Old 04-14-2009, 12:59 PM
Julies Cool F1 Julies Cool F1 is offline
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Hi Guys,

Yeah they changed the search software so now instead of not working sometimes, it's just completely worthless.

Usually I will try to post a couple links to help point folks rather than refering them to the search function. But at the moment, I am going back through my posts (all 1800 of them) trying to find the applicable links and save them to favorites to post for folks - because the search function is now useless.

There is a company I got my "one wire" alternator from called "Tuff Stuff." I can't say enough good things about them. But also, there is a company that now builds Alternators in cases that look just like the longer generators you see on the stock engines. LMC has started to carry the same type of product, but I don't have any feedback on quality of those yet (and they don't show them online only in the printed catalogue). I would definately go alternator and definately go "one wire" (internal regulator).

Here area few links to vendors that might be of help:

Products :: Tuff Stuff Performance

Powermaster PowerGEN Alternator - Ford Flathead 1939-48 - 75 Amp - Black Finish 82011*-*Powermaster PowerGEN Alternators*-*Alternators*-*Alternators, Batteries and Switches*-*Ignition and Electrical*-*Vic Hubbard Speed & Marine

Also, just as a side note, I have a 390 in my F1 with an MSD "Drop and Drive" electronic distributor - and I love it. It still uses a stock coil (use a Pertronix Flame Thrower) but no ballast resister with electronic set ups (as Vette indicated).
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:39 AM
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12 volt conversion

Thanks for all the cool links Julie. I think we are going with the "PowerGEN" altenator from Dennis Carpenter. I've got a couple more questions. If I hook up a one wire alt what do I do for a gauge. Will I have to run a different gauge. I'm not going to be able to run it through the original Amp gauge am I? And if I can run it through the amp gauge, do I run it through a volt step down resistor like the rest of the gauges. Also. Since I'm not running a generator and voltage regualtor can I just bundle all those wires together and tape them to the harness. I don't guess all the bare wire ends touching each other will hurt anything will it? Thanks in advance for all the help. Sorry for all the questions. I'm a bodyman more than a electrician.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:10 AM
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in my opinion you can use the original amp meter as it is really just reading the EMF off the line to identify the amperage of the current in the line and isn't actually connected to draw power. I do recall reading something a few months back that said to make sure and run the wire thru the loop on the back side of the gauge in the opposite direction or the gauge will show - when charging. But i've been wrong a lot lately
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Julies Cool F1 Julies Cool F1 is offline
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No problem on the questions - that's why we are here. But I think if you have less than 25 posts, questions are $1 after the first 10.

Actually, your current Amp guage will work just fine. It's not really an amp gauge but rather a "flow meter" that mearly shows "charge" and "discharge." It uses an induction loop to sense the electricity as it flows through the wire - in either direction.

So, when you wire in your your one wire alternator, the wire from the alternator would be hooked up to the place where you distribute power out to things (it might be the ingnition switch, fuse blocks, etc, then through the loop on the back of the gauge, to the battery terminal of the starter solenoid (which is also connected to the positive battery cable in your 12 volt/negative ground conversion).

In a GM electrical system, the battery is the main hot power distribution point and is charged directly. In the older Ford systems, the main power distribution point is that Battery post on the starter solenoid, and the battery (after starting) is treated as another peripheral simply to be charged or drawn upon as necessary.

When the alternator is charging properly, there will be enough electricity to power the accessories from the distribution point, and have extra to flow to charge the battery if it needs it, via the path I just described. Then the gauge will show a charge.

If the battery is fully charged, then the gauge will remain neutral.

If there is some type of failure of the generator/alternator to produce (like a broken belt) then the electricity will be drawn from the battery(causing th epower to flow in the opposite direction from normal) to power the items being used, and the gauge will show a discharge.

And this should be pretty much how the wiring is set up now - depending on how much of a conversion/possible rewire you will be doing.

The only caveat is that since you are converting to 12 volt, it will also convert from positive ground to negative ground, the wire running through the induction loop has to be routed through the loop in the opposite direction.

As far as the extra wiring in your harness, yes you can just remove the old regulator, cut the ends off the wires and cap them seperately with some type of insulated connector. You never want to leave bare wire ends exposed - never.

The wire that is attached to the "B" or battery post of your voltage regulator, is currently hooked up to your distribution point - ITS HOT!. If you leave it exposed it will short big time for sure. And actually, if it's convenient, you can use that wire to hook up to the one wire from the alternator, and that will complete the circuit as I described above (except the direction of the wire running through your guage loop).

The wire carrying power from the alternator should be 10Ga.

Edit note: Link-vette and I were typing these two answers at the same time.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
Edit note: Link-vette and I were typing these two answers at the same time.
um... mine was quicker.. and shorter... and not even close to being as useful.... Have you ever considered taking all of your posts and turning it into a how to and problem solving book? Could be a New York Times best seller!
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:34 AM
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12 volt conversion

Wow, thats a lot of good info, and quick too. Thanks for all the help guys and girls. This has been such a big help to us.
Julie, I'm impressed. You're so knowlegable about all this stuff. It's hard to find a lady who knows and cares about truck stuff. I think I'm falling in love. Lol, just joking Julie. Please don't take me serious. I do appreciate all the help. If I run past 10 questions will you take a credit card, lol.
Thanks again, Glenn
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:02 PM
Julies Cool F1 Julies Cool F1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links_vette View Post
um... mine was quicker.. and shorter... and not even close to being as useful.... Have you ever considered taking all of your posts and turning it into a how to and problem solving book? Could be a New York Times best seller!
Wow what a concept! I'd be like Helouis, but for trucks - Julieouise

Actually, with the new search engine being so worthless and such a waste of time, I took a couple days and went back through my posts and other discussions (all 1900 of them) to some of the more applicable posts and saved them to favorites, I also copied most of the picutres out of the Salesmans handbook and Chassis Parts Catalogue to be able to refere to them quickly and post them in new threads....

I guess that's close to the same same thing!

I could do that I guess, but that's a lot of work I don't need to do because I'm gonna be rich - blockerboy is giving me his credit card number!
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:02 AM
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step down reducers

Hey everyone, It's me again with another question. I just got the voltage step down reducers for the gauges and I just want to make sure I'm hooking these things up right. On the back of the gauge panel it's got a bar that connects all three gauges together and a single wire that runs from each gauge. Do I hook a reducers to each one of those single wires? Thanks in advance for any help on this. Glenn
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:34 PM
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Hi Glenn,

Nope! If you used the same one I did, there should be a diagram in the instructions (not bein gintentionally snide) that shows the parallel hook up.

Basically power flowed into one of the original gauges (TEMP I think)from the "ACC" post of the Ignition Switch, then it was passed to the Oil Pressure and Gas Gauges via the metal shunt.

Power then flowed through each gauge and out via the wire to each individual sending unit. The sending unit was a variable resistor that varried voltage to ground as the temp/pressure/or float level changed.

For your little resistors, you will need to replace the shunt with a jumper wire coming in from what ever powers your gauges now (probably still the ACC post on the ignition switch if you didn't rewire).

As I recall, one (specific) end of the resistor is bolted down to the gauge where the shunt used to be. The little wire on the resistor is connected to ground (like to one of the screws that secure the gauge to the panel). The other end of the resistor is connected to "Power In."

In the case where you are using three units (Oil; Temp; and Gas) you simply run a jumper wire from "power in" post on the first resistor to the "power in' post on the second and then the third.

I'll post this now in case you are really motivated and workin gon it today, and I'll draw you up a diagram and post it in an hour or so!
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:34 PM
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