I have a few local restaurants that currently have the waste oil picked up and they have expressed that they would give it to me, but I have not nailed down these options completely. We r talking about 25-30 gals. per wk max.
I really appreciate the insight and advice.

Welcome to the forum!

Lock it up quick, preferably with something in writing. Good oil sources are very hard to come by these days, and the business is cutthroat.

Good advice thanks

I just recently purchased an E-450 box truck that "i want to convert" to run on svo so my vote would be for "svo"

veggie oil
 

I do a mix of used veggie oil/diesel/gasoline/and injector cleaner. I have been using the mixture for over 100,000 miles. I have a '95 F 250 w/7.3 in it. It now has 310,000 + miles on it. I actually get more power and better mileage when I run it. If you want to quiet your engine a little - feed it a quart of new veggie oil in the tank. I cannot recommend this in a 6.0 however. I have one of those too. But I was cautioned against using it. I was told a 10% mixture would be OK but I think the 6.0's are too touchy.}>

I have been running motor oil blended with old stale boat gas when I find it.
I actually mix everything together that happens to be a petroleum product.
Atf, Hydraulic oil, engine oil, diesel oil, gear oil, transformer oil.
I mix in 5 gallons of RUG to 50 gallons WMO and filter it all through a mess of filters and a 10GPM filter cart for final pass. I always add fuel additive around 16 ounces per 55g drum
Down to 10 microns.

Have over 20,000 miles on it runs just fine, no smoke out the tailpipe.



Javier

Noob help?
 

Hi gang,

Doing my homework... Trying to decide if I ought to buy a bio processor from a guy I met. Other than the reliable source of oil, it looks like I'll need a supply of methanol too.
Does anyone have a good source in the Southern California area? Preferably LA or Ventura counties... Heck, preferably next door, but maybe that's asking a bit much. With shipping, I've been quoted $425 for a 55 gallon barrel, and that starts to make the whole thing unattractive.

Thanks!
Curt

Finding methanol should be the easy part. If pricing is anywhere close to what I pay here, expect around $200 for a drum. A quick google search found Los Angeles California Chemical Distributor - Wholesale Bulk Fine Chemical Supplier - Westco Chemicals Inc in north hollywood, but I'm sure there are others there in that area. Personally, I don't think you should underestimate the ease of finding WVO. You wouldn't want to invest your time, money, and space with everything else to find you can't obtain feedstock. Procuring, setting up, collecting, and pre-treating WVO is actually the most labor intensive and time consuming part of the process of making biodiesel. I would see if you can set up your WVO accounts first, before making the commitment. Good luck!

methanol source
 

I live in the Inland Empire and I get my methanol from Merit Oil. Last I paid was about $250.00 plus the drum charge. You are also going to need a source for KOH. That is what I have been using for the last 3 years since I have been making it. What kind of price were you quoted on that?

Here's a source for NaOH:
$105 for 50 lbs, shipped

50 lb Pail of Sodium Hydroxide [50drhdl] | DudaDiesel Biodiesel Supplies

Not sure if that's crazy or not. 50 lbs oughtta make quite a bit of product.

They also sell KOH:

45 lb Pail of Potassium Hydroxide [45drhdp] | DudaDiesel Biodiesel Supplies

A little more, but I hear that KOH is a better way to go.

Not ready to jump in just yet, as I still have not secured my oil source. Lots of small restaurants around though. Hopefully something will work out.

Thanks for the info,

Curt

Get my Methanol from the local guy who supplies parts for dirt track racing. Runs about 23 bucks for 5 gallons. I use KOH myself which I buy in 25 kg bags off the Internet. I repackage it into gallon zip lock bags to make it easier to use and measure. Tried NaOH once. Glycerin is thicker and harder to work with.

Another thing to consider is how you are going to dispose of the glycerol...

Curt
I get my methanol from a team of race car drivers who use it for their fuel. I pay $200 a barrel. I get my KOH from Duda Diesel. Last batch was $107 plus $22.81 shipping. Been making bio for about 6 1/2 years now thanks to Fabman and others on the net. Don't be afraid to offer the restaurant a little bit for their oil. I started free but had to pay .50 a gallon to compete with the collection company. Still a good bargain. Ends up costing me $1.25 a gallon to produce. (I don't capture the methanol) Good luck.

Tom D.

Best price on the methanol (so. Cal) so far is $300 OTD for 55 gallons, plus a $25 barrel deposit. Makes the cost per gallon worthwhile I think. Still trying to nail down the oil supply. I like the idea of paying 50 cents a gallon, if I can get it in the jugs. The oil dumps are friggin nasty.

Curt

Something you might want to keep in mind as you're planning WVO accounts is that every restaurant handles their used oil differently. Some dump it directly into a vessel that you provide, i.e. 55 gallon drum, or metal dumpster, which you will need to either lift and replace, or pump out regularly. Some will dump the cooled oil back into the cubies they came in so you can easily come by and just pick them up.

Additionally, some will dump their oil with all the cleaning water and chunks along with it. Whichever method each restaurant employs, you need to be prepared to deal with whatever it is they give you. That means a system to course filter and de-water the WVO. It is also important to keep the area where this exchange is occurring, clean, neat, and tidy. Restaurants want hassle free service. That is likely the primary reason most restaurants will go with a large rendering company because they're equipped to do so. And, in most cases, it's not about the money because the tiny sum they're paid for the used oil doesn't amount to much.

I've found many restaurants would rather give the oil to a local individual than to a large company, as long as they can be assured everything I've already stated. Ask me how I know. In the 7 or so years I've been brewing biodiesel, I've never had to pay for WVO. It's about developing a relationship, making a personal connection, and taking care of business. I've taken away accounts from both large companies, and individuals like ourselves, who couldn't hold up their end of the deal. They either made a huge mess, or couldn't pick up the WVO when the restaurant needed it picked up. Once you establish yourself with a reputation for being professional, on time, clean, and hassle free, finding used oil will not be an issue. It's a commitment, but once you get your ducks in a row, it's an easy, worthwhile hobby.

Thanks for all the advice. I plan on visiting some local restaurants in the morning. I'm thinking that if I can get as little as 20 gallons a week I'll be set.

Curt

Keep us updated on you progress & good luck.

just an aside for methanol.

I get mine from one of 2 places. The local fuel supplier for propane etc has barrels, last one cost me $214 including tax, but I found another guy that builds race car chassis and he also sells bulk race gas including methanol. You need your own barrel but he is almost always cheaper, this year was $3.10/gal

I just did a fast search in yellow pages using your location listed and it came back with several suppliers of race gas.

Racing Fuel in Thousand Oaks, California with Reviews & Ratings - YP.com

Progress
 

So I brought home my processor yesterday...

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3ab0923ac6.jpg

Got the whole mess, processor, methanol drum, bunch of KOH, filtering stuff, transfer pump setup

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...aeab4128c0.jpg


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...b4298f1598.jpg

I gave $700 for everything. Now doing a bunch of cleaning up of stuff, as the system hasn't been run in about 18 months.
After I got home, we went out for dinner, and before we left I asked the owner about his used oil. Went home with about 25 gallons of oil, and his promise to save more for me. So far so good!

Curt

How are you planning to wash?

The processor has a spray ring thing in the top that hooks to a garden type hose. Idea is to finish the batch, pull off the glycerin, and then spray. Drain off the water, and then off to a bubbler drying tank.
Sound reasonable?

Curt

Fabman and others here convinced me to dry wash. Their argument was that you want to remove water from the biodiesel, so why would you go and add water back into it. Made sense to me...
I did try water wash once, formed an emulsion. Had to de-water and reprocess the whole batch. What a PITA...

Sounds like it should be fine. I water wash and have a separate wash tank. Then I return it to my cleaned processor for heated spray drying. Water washing is more time consuming, but I am confident that my finished fuel is of great quality. One of these days I'll re-configure my set up to do dry washing, but for now, I have a great system and have become quite adept at handling the periodic trouble batch, i.e. excess soap/emulsion. And believe me, you'll run into it on occasion. All it takes is patience and time. Just make sure you do the the tests for conversion, soaps, and moisture, and you'll be good to go.

The competition
 

So I'm out hitting the local restaurants up for their used oil, when I run across THIS:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...6511afc67b.jpg

They are paying the restaurant owner $.70 a gallon for their oil, according to one manager I spoke with.

I forge on, and got another owner to let me give him a jug and funnel... Says maybe 5 gallons a week. Couple more of those.....

Curt

I would be surprised they would actually pay that much today, especially since the biodiesel tax credit has been phased out. With the recent drop in fuel prices, it's going to be even more difficult for commercial biodiesel producers to make money. And speaking of lower fuel prices, it's also usually the time when many home brewers slow down or drop out of making biodiesel. This is when I ramp up production and can usually find cheap and/or free materials, equipment, and chemicals. I recently bought a couple drums of methanol from a guy quitting biodiesel production for pennies on the dollar. I'm stocking up because fuel prices will go back up again eventually.

Another source for WVO, if you haven't already checked it out, is your local craigslist. Enter 'fryer oil', 'cooking oil', 'vegetable oil', or 'wvo' in the search box. Lately, I've been finding more oil around here almost every week. Good luck!

Progress and question
 

My processor has been completely cleaned and refurbished. I've done pretty well with CL ads and have probably accumulated 150 gallons of oil. I cut the top off a 55 gallon plastic barrel and strained my oil thru 400 then 100 micron barrel strainers. This is my settling tank. This oil looks good and titrates at 3.5.

Recent score:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...f08f85a071.jpg

For fun I took about a half liter of the oil and tried a micro batch in a mason jar. Using NaOH, I made this:


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...679a1b5e85.jpg

Any idea what the cloudy stuff on the bottom is? I haven't washed this ... Is that the problem? I want to get this right before I make 40 gallons of crap.


Thanks!
Curt

Hard to tell. Likely to be soaps, but it looks like it's moving around in your jar so it's a bit hard to tell. Depending upon temperature, it could also be high melt point esters. I say give it a few washes, dry it, and see what you've got. You've definitely got the right idea doing small batches first. I did about a half dozen or so mini batches before I did my first big batch. It helps a lot to watch how the various stages react and look. Keep posting progress and good luck!

By the way, did you do a 3/27 test for conversion?

Yes, I did the test... Came out perfect.

Curt

Sprayed my micro batch with some warm water...


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1ad210f468.jpg

Took care of the weird cloudiness. We'll see what it looks like in the morning.

Curt

That looks better! After a few washes, I'm feeling pretty good. Gonna try a larger batch in my 5 gallon bucket processor when I get home from a trip.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...1b1627829f.jpg


Curt

Ebay item 301513073842... 4 barrels of methanol in Miami for $200. Now there's a good deal if your local.

Curt

Woohoo!
 

First batch under way!


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...c2c20b3a16.jpg

My last 4 gallon bucket batch was a success, passing all tests and running fine in my Beast at about 10% ratio, so time to go bigger. This is a 20 gallon batch. Oil settled for about a month, then titrated to 2.0. Passed HPT with NO bubbles. Fingers crossed for a good result!

Curt

30% ratio running now... so far, so good. Keeping fingers crossed!


Curt

that's a good ratio for winter, about what I run as long as it's above zero. Keep an extra fuel filter in the truck with you, it will remove crap from your fuel system. I had to change filters more frequently at first...

Anyone have a feel for which oils are "better" than others for brewing biodiesel? I ask, 'cuz someone gave me about 5 gallons of new grape seed oil. I guess it's a vegetable oil... Hmmm. Are grapes vegetables?

Curt

You might get more responses to your posts if you start your own thread, as this one is has been straying off topic.

Grapeseed oil should make fine biodiesel. It's not hugely popular because it's expensive in comparison to other frying oils. Most restaurants use it when they want a lighter, 'unobtrusive' tasting oil in their fried foods, dressings, etc., so it's typically a more specialized cooking oil.

As far as other oils, BTU content varies as does gel point. Peanut oil, for instance, makes great biodiesel but can start to gel in the low 60's. Canola oil also makes great biodiesel and it has one of the lowest gel points. The most common frying oil, soybean, falls somewhere in the middle range of BTU content and gel point.

I'm sure you're right... Thanks for answers to the noob's endless off topic questions!

Curt