What truism did I post?

About the only one I alluded to was that this is not a black and white issue but very grey.

Same truck, same driver, same roads, I bet you can not measure a difference.

How is it that I have bigger tires yet, with more agressive tread, and get the same milage I did before? Driving habits maybe.

Dude, you need to get back on your meds.

 

Read the posts again. What do 'you believe to be a truism'? Claiming "99% of people would never notice/bet you can not measure a difference" & feigning invincibility. Sorry but it's your opinions that sound basically "black and white".

I'm sticking w/the grey area, where it's been clearly demonstrated that you actually can "measure a difference". Spikedog contributed a calculation "be sure to make the 9.9% difference in circumference part of the calculation" & another contributor mentioned you can "measure a difference" in the extra unsprung weight of oversize tires.

Perhaps other drivers are more observant & precise & you'd lose your bet?

As to "How is it" you "get the same milage"? Perhaps your figures/calculations were never accurate enough to "measure a difference"?

We got it, your "glowing blanket truism" is that "99% of people would never notice...a difference" between 235 & 265 tires. This topic is about the 'Pros & Cons' & may inquire into "splitting hairs".

Dude, you may need to get off "your meds".

 

Pretty funny that 75% or more of the threads that Club Wagon starts end up as arguments that he instigates by attacking people who try to help him. CW...don't you see a pattern here?

I could type a lot of stuff here about mileage theory, but my sense is that the bigger tires will lose 1-2 mpg in both city and highway mileage, have more issues with balance, and will handle worse on stock width rims (they will flop side to side in a lane change or slalom) than the originals.

Also, CW, this is your solution, which I have used. Buy some of the larger tires in a brand name (Bridgestone, Firestone and possibly others) that have a 30 day or longer return policy. Drive them for a month, take them on a trip, experience the gas mileage and the feel. If you like them, keep them. If you don't, return them for a refund. I got a set of 30 x 9.50 Firestone Destination A/T's for my van instead of the 235/75x15 Michelin LTX's that came stock on it. Very highly rated and recommended, very good price, but much heavier and in the LT size. And they were an AT tire, but not near as much of an upsize as you are considering, CW.

They lost me 2 mpg, the increased weight overwhelmed the shocks, they clomped around, and the bigger tread blocks got really hot after some time on the road. They made my 4.6 labor more, downshifting on upgrades where it did not used to. After 3 weeks of confirming the mileage loss in both city and trip miles (and I did drive them a LOT). I went to Costo, got a set of Michelin LTX M/S's just like the originals, and returned the Firestones for a full refund except $50 or so for mounting and balancing. Over the life of the tires, I saved a couple grand of fuel, so it was worth it. I also concluded that Michelin LTX M/S's are the tires God designed for Econolines and would recommend them to any truck owner.

This is the best approach I can recommend. It worked for me and I ended up very happy because I had the actual experience of the larger size. And please get the message that you should be nice to folks who try to help you.

I have also converted 4 pickups and vans from 235/75x15's to 255/70x15's over the last 30+ years. About 1 mpg loss for a similar design tire in roughly the same diameter but with a wider tread, and they looked cool.

Final recommendation--if you will sell the truck during the lifetime of the tires, the bigger size will be a plus for most buyers because they look cooler and most people know that trucks just get bad mileage. Hell, I would think it looked much cooler. But if you want a tire that makes sense, buy a LRR tire in the stock size or maybe one upsize (245 vs 235). The gas savings will make you happy every time you fill up during the lifetime of the truck. And gas WILL go up.

Peace,
George

ps if you lose the quotation marks TOTALLY, your attitude will seem at least 25% less passive-agressive, CW...

 

Not funny at all that nearly 100% of YoG's responses to my posts include off topic personal attacks. Remember, Greenie may've had you in mind when he charged that "99% of people would never notice...bet you can not measure a difference".

Get over the use of quotes & the quotations marks. My "attitude" is only steering discussion to the 'Pros & Cons' of this tire swap. Suggest "you lose" the jail house psychoanalysis & stick to the topic. IMO Greenie's boasts & put downs instigated arguments/attacks against "99% of people". By his aggressive-aggressive logic you're not "expert" enough for "splitting hairs" you split. Objective analysis shows I actually welcome & defend your opinion on tires. How "nice" is that?

Thanks for your suggestion of buying from a tire shop w/liberal "30 day or longer return policy" & making them 'eat' the tires under a satisfaction guarantee. Had never thought of that kind of premeditated "passive-aggressive" dealing. Surprising it's "the best approach (you) can recommend".

While you may think "Michelin LTX M/S's are the tires God designed for Econolines" I'm getting tires for an F150 4X4, don't want "much heavier" LT tires, am buying Summer/highway tires & can't justify Michelin's extremely high price.

 

When I bought the tires, I had a 90% expectation that I would keep them. They are still at the top of Tire Rack's A/T survey. They were really quiet given their tread design. They looked REALLY cool. The mileage loss was WAY more than I had expected and I returned them, and told the dealer that I could not take the gas mileage loss.

The dealer put them on the floor and hung a discounted price on the set--from what I recall it was about $50 less than I paid for the tires. So they were out some shop labor and a few balancing weights because they kept my $50 for mounting/balancing. I can sleep well at night.

I never recommended Michelins for your truck. How about some Firestones or Bridgestones, with the 30 day guarantee? If you don't see the wisdom in this advice--a free test of tires on your very own truck in your own conditions--for a swap you are not sure of--then I'm out of ideas. This is advice I would give my best friend.

You want me to make up some stats for you? What exact scientific answer do you expect from anyone about some theoretical tires on your truck, which we don't own or drive?

George

 

when i bought my truck it had 265's and about 2 months ago i got 285's and never regretted one second of it

 

While initiating discussion about the 'Pros & Cons' of swapping 235 to 265 16" tires I wasn't even inquiring about specific tire recommendations. There are plenty of surveys that give rankings. How about some General Grabber HTS? The last survey I read ranked them at the top.

What I expected were the 'Pros & Cons' of the 235 to 265 16" tire swap on F150 4X4 I inquired about. I did not expect to reinvent the wheel, any "exact scientific answer" or respondents "to make up some stats". Also didn't expect anything theoretical, or to be criticized for using quotes.

It's been interesting reading how widely & contrarily contributors' opinions have ranged. The odd thing is that the most common reason to switch to 265's seems to be just for looks. Unexpectedly, a general impression given is that performance may actually suffer. Then there's the idea "99% of people would not notice a difference" when tire circumference is increased 9.9%.

Thanks everyone for contributing.

 

jeeze.....


pros: looks. lower cruising RPM, better highway mileage.

cons: worse city mileage.

 

"jeeze.....

pros: looks. lower cruising RPM, better highway mileage.

cons: worse city mileage."

End quote.

No regrets. Now can we get a thread lock?

 

Please disregard Crash1040's call to "get a thread lock" & feel free to contribute on the 'Pros & Cons' of switching from 235 to 265x16" tires.

Took a few minutes to summarize the opinions contributed thus far:

PRO
5 looks
4 better MPG
2 better off road clearance
2 overall gear ratio OK
handle good
faster
traction

CON
3 heavier worse braking distance
3 worse MPG
2 slower
increased suspension wear
drive line failure
higher cost
overall gear ratio worse

While nobody appears to regret switching, it's been argued that the differences are small, even that "99% of people would never notice....a difference". Several comments remain debatable. Note several obvious contradictions & shouldn't a bigger footprint mean shorter braking distance?

93 mix 'n match's last post may ID the MPG conundrum. Lots of stop & go urban driving always hurts MPG, oversize tires might make it worse. The advantage of larger diameter tires should show up best cruising at highway speed & give better MPG. The calculation posted showing 9.9% larger diameter sounds significant to me.

Considering that virtually all my driving is rural highway & I'm not Speed Racer, I'd expect a small increase in MPG. Surprised nobody commented directly on ride quality, differences in towing behavior, or wet road performance.

 

I'd expect a decrease in MPG, even on the freeway, due to more rolling resistance and a huge aero profile, despite the effective longer gearing. The exception here would be if your gearing is really short (4.10:1 or something). With a 4.6 and 3.55 gears, you will likely be geared too long and the engine will work much harder. If you have a 5.4, more of a tossup.

Ride quality may be better due to the larger tire size--more air cushion effect--but at the expense of steering response if you stay with the same wheel width. Increased weight capacity might be useful for towing, but taller, floppier sidewalls will make sway a bigger problem--optimum tire for towing would be close to the stock size but in a heavier load range. Wet road performance will suffer due to more hydroplaning tendency of a wider tire. Hit a big puddle at speed and you will notice.

Biggest improvement would be aired down in soft sand, where the large tires will give nice flotation for the same reason they hydroplane on wet roads. Would be worse in mud with less "dig" and worse in snow.

All this assumes a given tire design and type (P vs LT).

If the stock tire is a 235/70x16, my pick for an upsize given your priorities would be a 235/75x16 or 245/75x16 (not sure what is available). These would lengthen your gearing a bit without causing significant drag due to weight and size.

George

 

*buzzer* wrong answer. we're not talking 44's vs 15's. theres really only a slight increase in overall size. you will notice maybe 1-2 mpg increase on the highway.


as for the suspension wear and driveline failure....WTF? not at all. my truck has had 265s on it for the past 200k miles of its life. normal intervals for normal parts. again, its a very SMALL increase.

 

Do you dispute or concur w/spikedog's calculation of "9.9% difference in circumference"?

Do you consider a "9.9%" increase in circumference "only a slight increase in overall size"?

IMO "9.9%" is a very significant "increase in overall size". Before hearing several negative opinions I'd expected a "1-2 mpg increase on the highway" was perfectly reasonable.

So far contributor opinions are split between better & worse MPG, w/some suggesting most wouldn't notice any difference. Since every tank of gas is logged on this F150 I would notice a difference.

 

alrighty, i have 1 of both tires. my spare is a 235 and my normal tire is a 265. ill be right back, ill put them next to eachother and take a picture. there is almost no noticable difference.

 

Hey '93...you are nice to be helpful but the numbers on tires have an actual significance. If this copies correctly, it's a segment of a spreadsheet that I have made up for this purpose. The last column is the ratio of size, so on a theoretical basis the 265/75 is 9.31% larger than the baseline 235/70. In the real world, tires will vary by a tenth or three, but will generally correspond to these calculated sizes.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="429"><col style="width: 54pt;" width="72" span="3"> <col style="width: 52pt;" width="69"> <col style="width: 54pt;" width="72" span="2"> <tbody><tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> <td style="height: 15.75pt; width: 54pt;" width="72" height="21">Width</td> <td style="width: 54pt;" width="72">Aspect</td> <td style="width: 54pt;" width="72">Wheel</td> <td style="width: 52pt;" width="69">Width</td> <td style="width: 54pt;" width="72">Diameter</td> <td style="width: 54pt;" width="72">
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 15.75pt;" align="right" height="21">235</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">70</td> <td class="xl25" align="right">16</td> <td class="xl26" align="right">9.2520</td> <td class="xl26" align="right">28.9528</td> <td class="xl26" align="right">1.0000</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> <td class="xl23" style="height: 15.75pt;" align="right" height="21">235</td> <td class="xl23" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl23" align="right">16</td> <td class="xl24" align="right">9.2520</td> <td class="xl24" align="right">29.8780</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">1.0320</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> <td style="height: 15.75pt;" align="right" height="21">245</td> <td align="right">75</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">9.6457</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">30.4685</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">1.0524</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15.75pt;" height="21"> <td style="height: 15.75pt;" align="right" height="21">265</td> <td align="right">75</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">10.4331</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">31.6496</td> <td class="xl22" align="right">1.0931</td> </tr> </tbody></table>