What is better paying now and repairing once or paying more than once and wasting time doing the repair several times.

 

I have a bunch of sayings I like to say when I see someone doing lazy workmanship or just slamming things together to get it done ... That attitude just boils me!

A few ...
Do it once right or not twice!
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right!
If you're gonna do it, do it right or don't do it at all!
Don't waste your time doing it, if you're not gonna do it right!

Not insinuating anything at anyone in this thread!

To me, Right is 110% effort, with passion, to the best of your abilities!

-Enjoy
fh : )_~

 

Even NAPA has gone to aluminum cores. It is getting hard to find the brass ones these days. I had an O'Reilly's core ( still was brass then), lasted a year, then went to the one I still have from NAPA, when they were still using brass, and it is still holding out. Got an aluminum unit in my sister's 92 from Autozone that is working fine still, a little over a year on it now.

 

As I stated earlier, the parts stores dont make their parts. they buy them. Vista-Pro, the result of many buyouts and takovers of GDI/ReadyRad/Modine/Visteon/Proliance/Fedco/etc, is in the process of moving their entire line to aluminum. Not only that, they are consolidating the line so one core will fit many vehicles in a line, using various brackets and foam strips, along with strategic cutting and patching of the cases. They supply the replacement parts to Ford and GM so if you buy a new Motorcraft or Delco boxed core, unless it is old stock, it is going to be a Vista-Pro supplied unit. The factory installed units in current Ford vehicles still come from the Visteon OE division as modules, but those parts dont go to the parts departments. Only aftermarket supplied units are available at teh counter

Chrysler's heat exchange line is provided by Valeo Engine Cooling. Most of Europe either uses Valeo or Behr. Japan uses Denso, Valeo and a few other small companies. There are only a few players left in the world. When GDI bought Modine Aftermarket and became Proliance they shut all the american plants down and moved operations to Mexico. What they dont make in Mexico they buy from a Chinese company called Enterex. They did the same thing when they bought Visteon's Heat Exchange and aftermarket parts division. Visteon was a spin off from Ford, much like AC Delco was spun off from GM. Four Seasons quit making heaters many years ago.

Unfortunatly these days a brand name is just that, a name. In most cases it's just a rebox. If you still have the original heater core and you really want a C/B core, your best option is to take the original to a radiator shop and have them cut a core block and recore it, or call around and see who still has some old stock on the shelf. You can also have the rad shop check your replacement core for full flow on the solder etc. Quality control is not what it used to be. A 20% failure rate is acceptable these days, especially when no one really does labor claims any more.

I work in the business of automotive heating and cooling manufacturing and distributing and have seen a lot of companies fall in the last 10 years, and even more companies stop building their own stuff and start buying from Chinese companies like Enterex. I hate selling a crap part from them, but when it's all that is available, there really is no choice.

 

Very goodi informative post Archion. What you stated about Ford and GM is what bothers me, in that they seem to use one grade of parts for OEM assembly but when
you need to replace the part you are stuck with buying an inferior replacement part.
It seems the OEMs would have standards and specifications for any part they sell under
their brand name.

 

OEM has to made to manufacture standards.As far as auto zone vs napa the parts are made cheaper to sell cheaper for auto zone .The parts may be made thinner or a cheaper grade of metal( thickness,etc).I have some friends in the part manufacturing industry tell me the problems that are faced making parts for different companies and distributers.And stuff coming from china is causing the more grief because of cost differances.

 

My original heater core just went in my 86 and the one I got from Napa was an aluminum one, I rebuilt and resealed my entire heater box while I was replacing it and I just didn't like the way it fit compared to a stock one. I used parts from a 84 box I had that was in fantastic condition and I am starting to think I should have used the core from it also.

 

Folks,
I am not an expert but I don't think the problem of the short lived aluminum heater core has anything to do with quality. Anytime you put two dissimilar metals in an electrolytic (antifreeze in this instance), the metal that is least noble (aluminum) (less electrons in the valance band) will be the anode, and have hole flow (basically your aluminum heater core) to the more noble metal (copper radiator). The heater core will disolve and plate the copper radiator. If you have a boat, your engine has anodes which protect it from this very same problem. The anodes will become the sacifricial which prevents (or slows) other metals of the engine from being eaten away when the boat is setting in water (the electrolytic).

 

Aren't these anodes serving the same purpose as those which can be purchased
for the water inlet & outlets of home water heaters? Keep the inside of the tank
separated from the home plumbing supply?

I know in the home construction arena, two dissimilar metals cannot be touching
each other, e.g. copper plumbing cannot be touching steel duct work.

Aren't the various metals collected into groups and rated thataway? At least, that's
what I seem to remember from a HS chemistry class.

 

I don't think that those are anodes, but rather an insulator that keeps your hot water tank from being the anode for the rest of your plumbing system (example your copper pipes). The hot water tank insulator opens the circuit so that you don't have current flow from the dissimialars. An example would be a battery with no external load, has no internal hole flow (except for a very small amount due to internal resistance).

 

You, Ctubutis and Kane_geo, are talking about different things.

For water heaters there are both Anodes AND Dielectric Unions.

An anode is a sacrificial piece of metal (usually Zinc) that can be inserted into the tank itself.

A dielectric union (or nipple) electrically isolates the water heater from the ground created by the water main's contact with earth. (but the water itself is a conductor -electrolyte- , so....)

I had huge problems, going through 16 heater cores with my old engine.
I even went so far as to solder a braided ground strap to the brass header tank.

 

That unfortunatly is becoming true. What I do is buy a part with the longest warrantee. My motorcraft battery has a 8 year warrantee for instance. The ones with the longest warrantee are usually the best ones out there.

Also Ford updates part numbers all the time. If you can still get a part with the older "original" number, then that is what I recommend you do. The newer updated numbers are newer updated parts. Some of these are made in mexico, or china as of recently.

Also in certain states, they don't alow exclutions of incidential or concequential damages. California is one such state. If your heater core or radiator hose fails in the warantee period and it causes your engine to blow up for instance, in certain states they are liable to fix your engine. And pay for labor too to make it right.

I've had whole brake systems and wheel covers replaced due to bad parts or workmanship.

A: Doing a wheel bearing repack and they broke one of my brake lines and let me drive off. Got all new lines, a brake system flush, a new porpotioning valve (It was stuck due to the line breakage), wheel cylinders, and pads and shoes free of charge on that one.

B: Tire shop installed one of my wheel covers wrong and it flew off and got ran over by a car a block away. Free brand new wheel cover.

Like I said, states may vary, and the exclution of incidential or concequential damages may be alowed in your state. However, If more people knew the laws of their state and made these places pay up if they could, things would be better.

 

I've had the wheel cover issue with factory wheel covers at the dealer, they had to replace 2 ... then refused to touch them again, they did all the maintenance on it while it was under warranty and I had to pull them them before taking it in or the work wouldn't get done!

-Enjoy
fh : )_~