Got stuck. Is my 4WD working right?
#16
#17
Traction aid is simple, yet complicated.
Open differentials is when only one wheel spins, and it's VERY embarassing. (I've got lots of similar stories like yours, NO fun!)
Limited Slip is a traction device with clutches. One wheel always has power. When that wheel starts to break traction or spin, the clutches grab and your other wheel comes in to help out.
Lockers are dangerous. Both wheels spin at exactly the same speed. Traction is excellent. But, when you take a corner the inner tire will hop and screech because it's trying to spin at the same speed as the outer tire. In the snow, rain, or ice they can be sacry. Take a corner at 35 mph in the rain and have that inner tire hopping and your rear end "can" (not always) whip right out and you'll be power sliding quicker than you can blink. Lockers should never be used if you have a load in the bed or when your towing. Remember, that inner tire naturally wants to spin slower than the outside tire. With a lot of weight over the tires, the inner axle shaft can be under a lot of pressure and may not break traction with the tire. With all that weight, you might break an axle shaft.
Selectable lockers are available. These units are the best of the best. You have an open differential for everyday driving, and a locker at the flip of a switch. ARB Air Lockers, OX Cable Lockers, Eaton has an electronic locker available, maybe some others I can't recall right now.
For a low-cost modification, you may not want to get a used limited slip unit. Remember in high school when we all just burnt rubber and didn't care? You might end up with a burnt out posi/limited slip unit. Pay for it, pay for it to be installed, then end up having to pull it back out and replace the clutches, then pay for it to re-installed. You're better off keeping your stock axles and just saving up for new limited slip units.
Another note, you can't mix and match axles. Axles all have different gearing options. You might have 3.55's. Another truck has 4.10's. If you get a junkyard front axle with 4.10's and bolt it into your truck that has a 3.55 rear axle, you're in trouble! Make sure you swap axles as a matched set to save yourself the headaches.
You might be interested in finding a deal on used axles and slowly rebuild them as money allows. You could replace all the bearings, seals, brakes, balljoints/king pins, and add in a limited slip. Paint it all up, then take a weekend and put the axles under your truck. Might be a way to get traction affordably, and have the confidence of having rebuilt axles.
A lot of times people will say add weight in your truck bed. Don't be fooled, it takes a LOT of weight to make a difference. It might take a 1/2 yard of sand to make a difference. Then you have to wonder how you're going to contain all that sand. A lot of buckets or put a tarp down and load it all in loose? Then it freezes and you're tire blows out... Weight is a classic solution to traction, but it has drawbacks. I know plenty of people who have been in sticky situations because the snow/ice/sand froze in the truck bed. Remember, the weight might help get you going but you have no guarantees the extra weight will help you stop. That guy Newton wrote about physics and inertia...
Actually, on a funny note, my Dad's buddy in high school had a pickup truck with a lot of holes in the bed. He had access to construction equipment. He needed traction in the winter so he layed a tarp down in the bed and poured it half full with concrete! Started off well, but stopped poorly.
Open differentials is when only one wheel spins, and it's VERY embarassing. (I've got lots of similar stories like yours, NO fun!)
Limited Slip is a traction device with clutches. One wheel always has power. When that wheel starts to break traction or spin, the clutches grab and your other wheel comes in to help out.
Lockers are dangerous. Both wheels spin at exactly the same speed. Traction is excellent. But, when you take a corner the inner tire will hop and screech because it's trying to spin at the same speed as the outer tire. In the snow, rain, or ice they can be sacry. Take a corner at 35 mph in the rain and have that inner tire hopping and your rear end "can" (not always) whip right out and you'll be power sliding quicker than you can blink. Lockers should never be used if you have a load in the bed or when your towing. Remember, that inner tire naturally wants to spin slower than the outside tire. With a lot of weight over the tires, the inner axle shaft can be under a lot of pressure and may not break traction with the tire. With all that weight, you might break an axle shaft.
Selectable lockers are available. These units are the best of the best. You have an open differential for everyday driving, and a locker at the flip of a switch. ARB Air Lockers, OX Cable Lockers, Eaton has an electronic locker available, maybe some others I can't recall right now.
For a low-cost modification, you may not want to get a used limited slip unit. Remember in high school when we all just burnt rubber and didn't care? You might end up with a burnt out posi/limited slip unit. Pay for it, pay for it to be installed, then end up having to pull it back out and replace the clutches, then pay for it to re-installed. You're better off keeping your stock axles and just saving up for new limited slip units.
Another note, you can't mix and match axles. Axles all have different gearing options. You might have 3.55's. Another truck has 4.10's. If you get a junkyard front axle with 4.10's and bolt it into your truck that has a 3.55 rear axle, you're in trouble! Make sure you swap axles as a matched set to save yourself the headaches.
You might be interested in finding a deal on used axles and slowly rebuild them as money allows. You could replace all the bearings, seals, brakes, balljoints/king pins, and add in a limited slip. Paint it all up, then take a weekend and put the axles under your truck. Might be a way to get traction affordably, and have the confidence of having rebuilt axles.
A lot of times people will say add weight in your truck bed. Don't be fooled, it takes a LOT of weight to make a difference. It might take a 1/2 yard of sand to make a difference. Then you have to wonder how you're going to contain all that sand. A lot of buckets or put a tarp down and load it all in loose? Then it freezes and you're tire blows out... Weight is a classic solution to traction, but it has drawbacks. I know plenty of people who have been in sticky situations because the snow/ice/sand froze in the truck bed. Remember, the weight might help get you going but you have no guarantees the extra weight will help you stop. That guy Newton wrote about physics and inertia...
Actually, on a funny note, my Dad's buddy in high school had a pickup truck with a lot of holes in the bed. He had access to construction equipment. He needed traction in the winter so he layed a tarp down in the bed and poured it half full with concrete! Started off well, but stopped poorly.
#18
#19
Dana Spicer Trac Lok
Expect a price of about 350 each for the units.
I am running one in both axles.
You may find rear axle limited slips were rather common, but front axle limited slips from the factory were almost non existant.
And the clutches in limited slips do wear, with a little abuse or running odd tire sizes on an axle with limited slip installed can be rendered usless as a traction aid in a very short distance.
Even with a limited slip, in slick conditions both tires on an axle will want to spin if you break traction, and can cause that axle to slide out in a turn.
With limited slip in both axles, that can mean the entire truck slides sideways when in 4x4.
I tried a Lock Rite locker, with weight in the bed and the steep hills we have here it made the truck impossible to turn.
Truck went straight no matter which way you turned the front wheels.
It finally exploded one day, took out the ring and pinion as well as every bearing in the rear axle.
Automatic lockers do require a different driving style, no powering through the corners on slippery roads or you may wind up someplace you had not wanted to go.
Lockers on something with weight loaded on the truck, not a good idea either.
That said, in impossible traction situations, they are hard to beat.
The selectable lockers like an ARB Air Locker would be the best you can get, but they do have drawbacks.
Cost is probably the biggest, 700 or so for the locker for each axle and then an air supply on top of that.
Also the hoses to the lockers do add something that can be torn off, making your locker usless till you fix the broken air line.
On the plus side, the onboard air can be used for things like air bags and even airing up a tire if you get a large enough compressor.
Expect a price of about 350 each for the units.
I am running one in both axles.
You may find rear axle limited slips were rather common, but front axle limited slips from the factory were almost non existant.
And the clutches in limited slips do wear, with a little abuse or running odd tire sizes on an axle with limited slip installed can be rendered usless as a traction aid in a very short distance.
Even with a limited slip, in slick conditions both tires on an axle will want to spin if you break traction, and can cause that axle to slide out in a turn.
With limited slip in both axles, that can mean the entire truck slides sideways when in 4x4.
I tried a Lock Rite locker, with weight in the bed and the steep hills we have here it made the truck impossible to turn.
Truck went straight no matter which way you turned the front wheels.
It finally exploded one day, took out the ring and pinion as well as every bearing in the rear axle.
Automatic lockers do require a different driving style, no powering through the corners on slippery roads or you may wind up someplace you had not wanted to go.
Lockers on something with weight loaded on the truck, not a good idea either.
That said, in impossible traction situations, they are hard to beat.
The selectable lockers like an ARB Air Locker would be the best you can get, but they do have drawbacks.
Cost is probably the biggest, 700 or so for the locker for each axle and then an air supply on top of that.
Also the hoses to the lockers do add something that can be torn off, making your locker usless till you fix the broken air line.
On the plus side, the onboard air can be used for things like air bags and even airing up a tire if you get a large enough compressor.
#21
#22
#24
Better yet, go straight to the Dana page.
44 IFS http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5313-3.pdf
60 http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5314-2.pdf
About the only thing any full time 4x4 setup is good for is adding to wear, both axle parts and tires and burning more fuel.
Why have all of those extra parts turning when not needed.
Once you convert to make it possible, you are committed to always using it.
44 IFS http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5313-3.pdf
60 http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5314-2.pdf
About the only thing any full time 4x4 setup is good for is adding to wear, both axle parts and tires and burning more fuel.
Why have all of those extra parts turning when not needed.
Once you convert to make it possible, you are committed to always using it.
#26
How long do you plan to keep the truck?
I'd start by locating a limited slip unit for the front axle. They'd be extremely rare to find in the junkyard if they were very rarely offered from the factory.
Try to determine your gear ratio in your axles. Try finding a tag on either the front or rear differential, the tag can be de-coded to determine the gear ratio.
If your tags are gone, jack up the rear of the truck. Mark a spot on the driveshaft, and a spot on either tire on the bottom of the inner sidewall. Make sure the mark is pointing at the ground. Spin the driveshaft by hand. Count the number of revolutions it takes for the driveshaft to spin to make the tire spin one full revolution. For example: If it takes the driveshaft 3.5 turns to make the tire turn once, you've probably got 3.55 gears. If it takes 4.1 times, you've got 4.10 gears.
After you determine the gear ratio, you can keep an eye out for a used rear axle with the same gears as yours that already has a LS (Limited Slip). You'll be looking for a Ford/Sterling 10.25 rear axle from an F250 or F350 from 1985-1997 (Someone correct me, VSS comes into play sometime in the 90's and I don't know when). Make sure the axle is from a pickup though, NOT a dump truck because they use a different axle. You have a wide range of years and models and can probably find a used rear axle with Limited Slip cheaper than buying a new unit and having it installed.
I'd start by locating a limited slip unit for the front axle. They'd be extremely rare to find in the junkyard if they were very rarely offered from the factory.
Try to determine your gear ratio in your axles. Try finding a tag on either the front or rear differential, the tag can be de-coded to determine the gear ratio.
If your tags are gone, jack up the rear of the truck. Mark a spot on the driveshaft, and a spot on either tire on the bottom of the inner sidewall. Make sure the mark is pointing at the ground. Spin the driveshaft by hand. Count the number of revolutions it takes for the driveshaft to spin to make the tire spin one full revolution. For example: If it takes the driveshaft 3.5 turns to make the tire turn once, you've probably got 3.55 gears. If it takes 4.1 times, you've got 4.10 gears.
After you determine the gear ratio, you can keep an eye out for a used rear axle with the same gears as yours that already has a LS (Limited Slip). You'll be looking for a Ford/Sterling 10.25 rear axle from an F250 or F350 from 1985-1997 (Someone correct me, VSS comes into play sometime in the 90's and I don't know when). Make sure the axle is from a pickup though, NOT a dump truck because they use a different axle. You have a wide range of years and models and can probably find a used rear axle with Limited Slip cheaper than buying a new unit and having it installed.
#27
Join Date: Jul 2006
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if your not plowing,just try the half yard of sand in the rear guys.you wont believe the difference.
remember the fatter the tire,the more it floats.this is great for traction on mud where you want to stay up.but when it comes to snow,the skinnier the better.you don't want to float on snow,you want to cut through it,and sink to the ground for traction.
a little shoveling of some sand,likely for free at your local sand pit may change your mind about spending $ for lockers.
remember the fatter the tire,the more it floats.this is great for traction on mud where you want to stay up.but when it comes to snow,the skinnier the better.you don't want to float on snow,you want to cut through it,and sink to the ground for traction.
a little shoveling of some sand,likely for free at your local sand pit may change your mind about spending $ for lockers.
#28
Better yet, go straight to the Dana page.
44 IFS http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5313-3.pdf
60 http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5314-2.pdf
About the only thing any full time 4x4 setup is good for is adding to wear, both axle parts and tires and burning more fuel.
Why have all of those extra parts turning when not needed.
Once you convert to make it possible, you are committed to always using it.
44 IFS http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5313-3.pdf
60 http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5314-2.pdf
About the only thing any full time 4x4 setup is good for is adding to wear, both axle parts and tires and burning more fuel.
Why have all of those extra parts turning when not needed.
Once you convert to make it possible, you are committed to always using it.
#30
Guys, thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.
Earlier this year I was thinking about a way to load some weight into my truck bed. Right now I've got a couple pallets for landscape stone in my Dodge 4WD dually for the winter, and you're right...it makes a huge difference. I've had that truck/equipment trailer in some pretty dicey situations this winter without a hitch. I don't know if it's LS or not, but I can tell you the weight made a big difference traction-wise.
Plus, I've got a front end loader to load the weight in the truck. I'm thinking about making some cast concrete forms that I can load in and out. That way I can load stuff on top of it without too much problem. I think it'll probably ride better with a little extra weight in there anyway! Who cares about MPG????
Earlier this year I was thinking about a way to load some weight into my truck bed. Right now I've got a couple pallets for landscape stone in my Dodge 4WD dually for the winter, and you're right...it makes a huge difference. I've had that truck/equipment trailer in some pretty dicey situations this winter without a hitch. I don't know if it's LS or not, but I can tell you the weight made a big difference traction-wise.
Plus, I've got a front end loader to load the weight in the truck. I'm thinking about making some cast concrete forms that I can load in and out. That way I can load stuff on top of it without too much problem. I think it'll probably ride better with a little extra weight in there anyway! Who cares about MPG????