In general I agree with you, Troy.

There seem to be lots of disgruntled V10ers who believe that this new smaller motor won't meet their needs.

I, for one, am very curious to see how the 6.2 does below 3,000 RPMs. Of course it's gonna have a screaming top end, but down low is what makes it work well for our use. Can't WAIT to see a dyno sheet!

 

Entry level = the smallest engine they will sell you. Usually adequate, nothing more.

And regarding the low end torque argument, numbers often lie. For example, the 5.4L looks better than the venerable old 460CI on paper. It's not.

 

Good point bpounds... The advertised power output can be misleading. Why? The advertised power output on all engines is at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). So when people say their engine puts most of it's power at lower rpm's or any rpm for that matter, don't forget those low rpm numbers is at WOT. How many of you want a towing engine that requires WOT to produce big power? The best towing engines in my opinion are the ones that put more power to the wheels with the least amount of throttle which usually means better fuel economy when towing, and less engine stress when towing. Remember... we are talking about truck engines here.

 

Might as well subscribe to this thread too....

I've said this before in other threads and I'll say it again.... I must be easy to please. My 5.4L (2V mind you!) always does the job with what feels like ease to me

I don't tow a lot but I once towed almost 8k pounds with it, on flat land, over a mountain, and on the interstate in the same trip. About 100 miles one way. The engine never once felt incapable to me so as I said, I must be easy to please

Would I like more power? Of course. Do I need it? Nope.

 

This is kind of different, Bill! We normally don't disagree...

Numbers NEVER lie. That's why they are there! Horsepower and torque are relatively easy ways to quantify output of an engine. There IS no other standard or way of measuring. How it "feels" is NOT a quantifiable measure of power output!

I think what you meant to say is how peak figures are often misleading. This is certainly true! In order to get a true picture of how an engine acts across the RPM range you need to see an actual dyno chart. This is how you see the exact strengths and weaknesses in regards to power and torque output an engine has, which happens to be what we're discussing! If you were to overlay a 5.4 chart with a 460 chart, we could have a meaningful debate. Until someone can come up with one, it's nothing short of hearsay.

How can you measure output if it's at partial throttle? Not sure if you are aware, but much of the time you are in the higher gears of the transmission on the highway, especially towing something, you are at WOT. Just because your pedal isn't at the floor doesn't mean manifold vacuum isn't very close to the normal atmospheric pressure. That's the point of gearing, to get the engine down low in the RPM range so it's working hard at less RPMs.

I can safely say that whenever you're towing something with lots of wind resistance or weight you spend nearly all of your time at WOT in one gear or another. Actually putting the pedal to the floor does nothing but forces a downshift and makes the engine operate at WOT in a higher, more powerful RPM range.

And finally:

So once again, you're trying to liken the single most powerful gasoline engine ever to be squeezed under the hood of a stock pickup truck to barely adequate? What am I missing here?

Of course the V10 was more than barely adequate, and many regard the 5.4 as just that. However we're not talking about a 5.4 here. This new engine has larger displacement, a higher redline, and stronger performance throughout the RPM range than the outgoing 5.4.

As I stated before, this is an engine that would flat out thrash any current or previous gen engine ever put in a heavy duty pickup. Only exception is over 4,000 feet or so with the diesel engine. But this was never meant to compete against the PSD!

So I'll say again: This engine will outpull a 3V V10 anywhere, at any altitude. I can say this with certainly because numbers DON'T lie!

 

Yep... Sure will be interesting to here some real world towing reports with this new engine. I'm hoping Ford will have videos out with the new SD line like they did with the '09 F150. Actually I'm not too surprised Ford is slowly dropping the V10 product. There's just no demand for them and if you want a truck with a V10 you have to order it, or do a search and if you do find one on a lot, the chances of it having the right color/options is like winning the lotto. What's even more surprising is Ford's ambulance package comes only with the V10 option.

 

Jason,
My hat's off to you... If you like your 5.4 and it meets your needs then it sounds like you won't have any new truck payments in the forseeable future. (Assuming you've had your truck since new and payed for with title in hand).

Now the wise guy response... Don't even set foot in the '11 super duty's 6.2 gas or diesel unless you want truck payments again and no title in hand.

 

This doesn't make ANY sense!

All engines have what is called a full load lug curve. By definition, rated power is the point at which maximumum horsepower is delivered within the operating speed range at full (wide open) throttle.

Similarily, peak torque is the speed/load at which maximum torque is made at full throttle.

An engine with higher torque rise (the difference between torque at rated speed / max power and the maximum torque along the lug line) will tow better than an engine with lower torque rise, all other things being equal.

Similarly, an engine with a lower speed at which peak torque occurs will drive better than an engine with a higher peak torque speed.

If an engine doesn't have enough torque to maintain road speed, the automatic transmission will downshift to maintainthe desired speed., but in any case, an engine with a higher lug curve (higner torque) will outperform an engine with a lower lug curve)

Smart calibrators use lots of tricks with throttle (pedal position) calibrations on electronic engines, so don't confuse tip in response, etc with actual engine towing capability.

Remember: advertised power sells engines, but torque moves loads.

Alan

 

Thanks!

Unfortunately, I'm still on the hook for payments since I bought this one used in Nov '07

But, if this truck lasts as long as my previous truck ('84 Ranger RIP) then I'll be due for a 2018 model truck in 2022. They probably won't even have the 6.2L by then.

 

You may have missed a key component about my comment: The engine that puts the most power to the wheels with the least throttle position will be the best pulling engine! Think about it a little more.

 

I'm with Jason here in that I think my 5.4L has plenty of power.

And I can't understand people saying the 5.4L never had any place in a Super Duty. The 3v engine in my truck is rated at 300hp and 365lb-ft. More power is always good I'll admit, but losing fuel economy to get it isn't what I want when my truck already gets 13mpg empty. The 6.2L looks to be an interesting and promising engine, especially if what they say is true about more power and better economy. I'm also curious to see how the 6-speed auto pans out. If it's anything like the current TorqShift it should be a good transmission.

Does anyone have a hp/tq graph of a 3v 5.4L they'd post up? I've looked for one online but never found one for a 3-valve motor.

 

Me too. I've towed/hauled with a 2v 5.4 SD, 3v 5.4 SD, 2v v10 SD, 3v v10 SD, 2v 4.6l F150, 6.0l Suburban, 6.0 yukon denali, and probably some other stuff I don't recall (not getting into real trucks).

I way happy with all of them, except maybe the Suburban (which had some hard miles on it so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt). Hell, I pulled a 5000lb+ trailer and a few hundred pounds of junk over 200 miles with that f150 (with 3.55 gears!) and I was actually quite impressed (maybe I had low expectations). I wouldn't do it everyday, but it still wasn't bad.

I mean hell, I pulled an 04 cobra back from maryland with a 3v 5.4 and the truck didn't break a sweat and did well on gas. People must be dealing with heavier loads, taller hills, or both to struggle towing with a 5.4. Then again I have towed with much lesser trucks at and past their ratings so I probably feel much better in these SD trucks.

And wow, what a difference between the 2v v10/4r100, and the 3v/5r110 setup.

Looking foward to seeing the 6.2 work!

 

But in 1997 265HP out of 415 CID v10 replacing 239HP out of 460 CID v8 made it a step forward, and the v10 had a lot more for improvement.

I think this is the same thing, the 6.2 is ahead of the v10 and 5.4 so they feel like that is all they need to put into it now.

If thy can get 100 HP more out of the 6.2 then it will stay on top of the gasser market just like the v10 did.

I think one reason that the only have it making " decent" power( rather than 3v heads right off the bat) is that they do not want another gasser that will out pull the PSD.

They want the PSD to be the hardest pulling engine they have, NOT a gasser that is a $300 option.

 

Uh, yeah...I think you're probably reaching a bit here! I have to believe that they were looking for something that was a good combination of "upgrade" to the 5.4L, and yet maintain at least a good chunk of the capabilities of the 6.8L. Along with improving gas mileage of both.

 

I see the argument of more than one thing here. People refer to power and can mean horses or torque. The 6.2L has more horsepower than the 6.8L. The 6.8L has more torque. The hp/torque curves are different between them.

Saying, "This engine will outpull a 3V V10 anywhere, at any altitude. I can say this with certainly because numbers DON'T lie!" is misleading. The engine will produce more horsepower. It won't produce more torque. Also, the 6.8L V10 makes 90% of it's torque at 1500 RPM. So, the "old" engine will make more torque at 1500rpm. It'll make more at 1000rpm. As a matter of fact the new engine will never make as much torque as the V10, will it? So, which engine has more power? Which engine has more "useable" power for the guy that pulls a trailer, or RV, or fills the bed with gravel, or lawn maintenance equipment? It depends, do you mean horses or torque, and which is more valuable to you and what you do?

Per Mike:
V10 has 80% of it's torque at 1000rpm. 90% is available at 1500rpm.
6.2L has 80% at approx 1250rpm, and 90% at 2500rpm.