I think my next truck will be a 97 SD crew cab short bed with a 460 or Power Stroke. At least I can work on it and it'll be much cheaper in the end. And it's mechanically more reliable. Are you listening, Ford?
1,000 miles? Interesting. Looks like I should have read the manual! You're right, it does say 1,000 miles. Every F-series truck I've ever had before, including my '03, '07, and my '08 state that you're not supposed to tow within the first 500 miles. Thanks for pointing that out to me!
On the other hand, attacking me for something unrelated and hoping to call me a hypocrite hardly adds to the point of the thread.
As I've stated before, lots of things in a modern vehicle are supposed to be sealed; often times they don't stay that way! It's important to be able to check a vital fluid!
__________________
Tom,
Current truck - 2008 F250 CC 4x4 PSD
Previous Fords:
2007 F150 Screw 4x4
2003 F150 4x4 r/c auto
To all of you who are defending Ford and the other manufactures on this dipstick issue: It is steps such as this that is causing me to NOT want to purchase a new vehicle of any kind. I have always done my own maintenance and always will. The fact that Ford is making it more difficult for me to do so will eventually lead me to go looking for an older truck or 2 and keep them on the road thru the aftermarket suppliers. Ryan, it's not that hard to pack your own wheel bearings every time you do a brake job. The old set up lasted longer and was more inexpensive for the consumer in the long run than the junk that is shoved down our throats now. And the old set up never caused the death wobble that 99 and newer super duty owners get on their 4x4's. It does far more harm to the environment to keep throwing away stuff like wheel bearings than it does to service them when required. This planned obsolesence that the manufactureres are using is what has contributed to their demise. Nobody can afford to replace with new every few years like they could 30 years ago when there were good paying jobs for the masses. If you doubt me, then why has the average age of motor vehicles been steadily increasing over the last 15 years?
Are you honestly suggesting that having to pack wheel bearings when you do a brake job is cheaper than having sealed hubs? I sure hope not... It takes all of 20 minutes to change brake pads when you don't have to fool around with packing bearings. When it does come time to replace a wheel hub/bearing, $150 and a half hour later you're done. The sealed hubs are going to last longer to boot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B
I think my next truck will be a 97 SD crew cab short bed with a 460 or Power Stroke. At least I can work on it and it'll be much cheaper in the end. And it's mechanically more reliable. Are you listening, Ford?
To be honest, it sounds like the problem is the fella holding the wrench rather than the type of vehicle. Unwilling/unable to learn new things is not Ford's fault nor is it the vehicle's fault.
1,000 miles? Interesting. Looks like I should have read the manual! You're right, it does say 1,000 miles. Every F-series truck I've ever had before, including my '03, '07, and my '08 state that you're not supposed to tow within the first 500 miles. Thanks for pointing that out to me!
On the other hand, attacking me for something unrelated and hoping to call me a hypocrite hardly adds to the point of the thread.
As I've stated before, lots of things in a modern vehicle are supposed to be sealed; often times they don't stay that way! It's important to be able to check a vital fluid!
Not an attack, just an observation. I had just read the thread about towing with it and was surprised to see you upset about not being able to check the fluid level.
Ford is not the first to have a sealed tranny or nonreplaceable fuel filter. Several other manufacturers have been doing it for years.
Doesn't surprise me that other manufacturers have done it. To be honest, it didn't surprise me as much as I thought it would. I figured it was coming as soon as I saw that on my Mustang back 5 years ago. I just can't figure out why!
Believe it or not, I'm not one to abuse a vehicle. I'm meticulous about maintenance, and I've never so much as modded a vehicle for performance because I'm concerned about long-term damage to the drivetrain. Had I known about the recommendation of 1,000 miles rather than the 500 on my previous Fords, I would have never hooked up my trailer to his truck. I respect other people's vehicles like I would my own, and I would never want to damage anything.
That being said, any ideas on why the 1,000 mile non-towing recommendation? Shouldn't be much of an engine issue, as from everything I've ever read by 500 miles the engine is pretty well worn in and can be driven normally. I was once told by a transmission shop when they rebuilt a transmission for another family member of mine that there was no break-in period for a transmission. The rear axle is the same 9.75" rear that I had in my '07 5.4L truck, and they have proven to be pretty much bulletproof. I think part of the 500 mile recommendation had to do with breaking in the ring and pinion...I just can't figure out why they doubled it!
__________________
Tom,
Current truck - 2008 F250 CC 4x4 PSD
Previous Fords:
2007 F150 Screw 4x4
2003 F150 4x4 r/c auto
Chris, the problem ain't with the fella holding the wrench. I have no problem learning new things. But I do have a problem with being conned like the manufactures are doing. There are a lot of neat things coming out of Detroit, but it can be done with more consideration for the consumer. And for your information, I never replace pads without machining or replacing rotors. I have never had rotors stay true for two complete sets of pads, so I take care of it while I have the vehicle out of service so I have less downtime. Since I do my own work, repacking wheel bearings is by far less expensive than replacing the throw away junk that's in the trucks now. And I contribute less to the landfill as well. When the manufacturers look out for the consumer as much as the stockholder, I'll be the first to endorse their product.
It's been interesting reading posts made by the proponents of old technology. Reading between the lines, it seems some people are fearful or resistant of adopting new technologies. In general, new technology is what advances society.
For life cycle cost, it's great Ford has given the new F150s sealed transmission units that feature 100k miles fluid change intervals. Think of the savings in time and cost it affords the F150 owner over the life of the truck. I loved the idea of no grease fittings as the industry switched over to the sealed modular units too.
The fear of transmission failure without frequent fluid changes is unfounded. Of course, for the old school fluid changers, you can always drop the pan on the transmission as often as you like. But for myself, I'll save doing the needless work but more importantly, save the unnecessary expense of frequent fluid changes.
It's been interesting reading posts made by the proponents of old technology. Reading between the lines, it seems some people are fearful or resistant of adopting new technologies. In general, new technology is what advances society.
For life cycle cost, it's great Ford has given the new F150s sealed transmission units that feature 100k miles fluid change intervals. Think of the savings in time and cost it affords the F150 owner over the life of the truck. I loved the idea of no grease fittings as the industry switched over to the sealed modular units too.
The fear of transmission failure without frequent fluid changes is unfounded. Of course, for the old school fluid changers, you can always drop the pan on the transmission as often as you like. But for myself, I'll save doing the needless work but more importantly, save the unnecessary expense of frequent fluid changes.
Big ole truck, I have to agree with the majority of your post. I don't have a problem with extended drain intervals, as I acknowledge that modern fluids and components are much better than their counterparts of years past.
I just wish I could easily check the level!
This will be a problem 8 or 10 years down the road. When the truck gets older and less reliable, seals and gaskets begin to fail. If one doesn't have the money for a new truck and has to settle for something old, they may not have the money to repair every leak as it happens. Currently vehicles that old have dipsticks, and with that comes the ability to top off fluid without crawling under the truck. So instead of topping off your transmission fluid until you can afford the repair, you're now stuck truckless until you can pony up the cash to repair the leak. This also makes it difficult to catch a leak before the tranny starts slipping, which is NOT a point I'd ever want to get to!
__________________
Tom,
Current truck - 2008 F250 CC 4x4 PSD
Previous Fords:
2007 F150 Screw 4x4
2003 F150 4x4 r/c auto
For the folks who think some of us old school folks are afraid of advancing technology, you are missing my point entirely. I am tired of being conned by the manufactures into thinking that the new stuff is better because it's a sealed unit that does not need service. You folks obviously don't come from a manufacturing background nor do your own work. The only ones that benefit are the stockholders and executives of the company because it costs less to manufacture in terms of time (labor). It is not necessarily less expensive to manufacture because of the cost of the part(s) nor is it less expensive to own over the life of the vehicle because of the increased cost of the parts and the increased labor costs to have the failed parts replaced. New advanced technology does not need to be more expensive to own or service to be effective. I like my 06 truck, but I also liked my 95 truck and my 79 truck. The 95 was probably my favorite because of the cost of repair when things do break. But it was a little harder to diagnose when there was an electronic problem. But I learned it just as I am the newer trucks and cars. I just wish that they were designed and packaged better for the consumer.
Life is too short to be concerned about what-ifs when the truck gets older. Maintenance and servicing costs increase with age of the vehicle, that's a given.
As for the transmission fluid level, I do understand some people may feel dissatisfied with the lack of the dipstick to easily check the fluid level or see the condition of the fluid. I always check for droppings on the pavement as a tell tale of an impending situation. Nonetheless, it's going to be alright.
For the folks who think some of us old school folks are afraid of advancing technology, you are missing my point entirely. I am tired of being conned by the manufactures into thinking that the new stuff is better because it's a sealed unit that does not need service. You folks obviously don't come from a manufacturing background nor do your own work. The only ones that benefit are the stockholders and executives of the company because it costs less to manufacture in terms of time (labor). It is not necessarily less expensive to manufacture because of the cost of the part(s) nor is it less expensive to own over the life of the vehicle because of the increased cost of the parts and the increased labor costs to have the failed parts replaced. New advanced technology does not need to be more expensive to own or service to be effective. I like my 06 truck, but I also liked my 95 truck and my 79 truck. The 95 was probably my favorite because of the cost of repair when things do break. But it was a little harder to diagnose when there was an electronic problem. But I learned it just as I am the newer trucks and cars. I just wish that they were designed and packaged better for the consumer.
Components will always be manufactured with some defects getting through the quality control process. It's unavoidable.
There's no con game by the automakers on the sealed units. The modular units are not infinite in their life span. They have an expected life span. It's this expected life span that makes the use of the sealed (modular) units so enticing. Generally speaking, the sealed units fail after the warranty period is expired (probability based). For drivetrain components, this can be 5+ years in harsh conditions, possibly longer.
If your argument is cost, then it should be reviewed against the savings from the shorter maintenance intervals required for the prior technology.
I'm not one to buy into the conspiracy theories that the automakers are trying to force us all into dealer service departments for everything the car will need for it's entire life. I just wish they would think a little bit of those of us who like doing our own maintenance!
For example, I believe the only difference between a "sealed" transmission and any other auto is the lack of a dipstick. How does not having a dipstick make it more advanced or better? Why can't they just keep the dipstick there and mention that they don't believe it needs to be checked unless a problem is suspected?
__________________
Tom,
Current truck - 2008 F250 CC 4x4 PSD
Previous Fords:
2007 F150 Screw 4x4
2003 F150 4x4 r/c auto
It's not the lack of the dipstick that makes the sealed transmission better, it's the long-life fluid.
My guess why Ford did away with the dipstick is not to annoy the people that do their own service but rather to avoid mixing different fluids together. Also, it emphasizes the long life fluid. But it's only my guess.
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