Usually silicone or neoprene anti-drain back valves. Dodge frowns the use of those types of filters that uses these types of materials.

Those Materials are great in the extreame cold because they are so plyable but then I've also heard that they do not of the regidity of the rubber to make a proper seal(according to dodge).

 

I caught the dealer last week putting a non-Ford filter on my Vic last week, well you know what happened. I exploded, with the last sentence being, "Why do you think I brought it here!" This was also done with about ten customers waiting. As most of you know, at this time, I cannot climb under my car or truck.

Well, I made them completely drain it, replace the oil and the filter with Motorcraft. Also, there was no charge for the service, including a wash!

 

That is true for the NAPA gold line... Which is what I illistrated. They also have there regular line, which to my understanding is not, and a race line to, depicted with an HP after the part number, which is also WIX. Hastings is another better choice, instead of MotorCraft.

I wont use Motorcraft, or will only as a last resort. There drain back valving is cheap. Motorcraft oil is also a product that leaves alot to be desired. I preffer Castrol conventional, or Mobil1 Synthetic.

 

With the problems I have had out of NAPA (for warranty) I refuse to use any of their products. Nobody sells me a defective part and then when it fails, tells me to kiss their *** and get out of the store.

But I do use the MC Syn in my Vic, along with the premuim MC filter.

 

Motorcraft is a Purolator gold filter. I have only had one motorcraft that had a problem and that was a drain back issue. Whose filter you use is like talking politics / religion. But if you have Ford warranty and you have an issue and it doesn't have a motorcraft filter then they have grounds to deny warranty. $4.00 filter verses a $5,000+ dollar engine to me its a no brainer.

 

This is one of the best points ever. Because the Motorcraft filter is virtually as good as any other (in my opinion), is easy to find, and does not cost a pile of money, it is the best default choice and especially so while the engine is under warranty.

It would be a tougher choice for me to make if the Motorcraft filter was made by, say, Fram, and was their low end filter version. I'd be somewhat more torn as to what to use if that were the case.

George

 

Question for the original owner:

Were they PH or TG/XG fram filters?

To the rest, don't post pictures of the PH Fram filters, or compare them in any way to the FL-820S.

FL-820S is the recommended filter - the "S" stands for silicone anti-drainback valve. The PH is not a silicone anti-drainback valve, so shouldn't be used in these motors anyway.

A few thoughts:

If you look inside those nice "sturdy" metal end-caps of the other filters, the paper media is still GLUED to the metal end-caps. The result is that the paper filter media is still not held any more rigidly than the Fram using cardboard end-caps (if they are even cardboard, it's sturdier than that, I've had them apart). The first thing to fail under pressure (which is pushing INTO THE CENTER) would be the paper media.

I've been an ardent Fram fan for many many years. My brother-in-law sells them wholesale to the marine industry and has never gotten a warranty claim after selling hundreds of thousands of them. Every other brand he's carried, and that's just about every brand ever made, he's gotten claims on them. Go figure.

I recently bought real Motorcraft FL-820S filters for my V10, just to see if there was any performance difference in terms of oil pressure at hot idle. Nothing. Still 25 lbs at idle hot.

And Paul, if that filter was totally empty inside, it sounds like you had the relief valve stuck closed in the oil pump and a way-too-thick oil in it Otherwise, it wouldn't push past the 80lbs or so relief valve. And I still don't get how it would be completely empty. That doesn't sound right. Maybe it didn't have any filter media in it to begin with because of a production problem?

 

From what I've seen of the guts of the Fram TG filter, which typically costs more than the Motorcraft anyway, there are two major problems:

First, the bypass valve is at the dome end of the filter on the Fram (as it is on most every other filter other than the Motorcraft). This means that when the filter goes into bypass mode, it bypasses through the contaminated section of the filter.

Second, the anti-drainback valve, although it is silicone on the Fram, still seals AGAINST CARDBOARD instead of metal as on the other filters. I would make the conjecture that oil can get past this seal, so even if the cardboard endcaps themselves are not an issue, the anti drainback valve sealing against porous cardboard is an issue for me.

And per the post in this thread regarding Ford warranty claims, why would you use any filter other than a Motorcraft during the warranty period anyway? If the anti drainback valve decomposes and clogs oil passages in my engine, I want it to be a Motorcraft anti drainback valve decomposing, not a Fram or any other brand.

I do recall a Consumer Reports filter test back in the 1970's, I believe, that found Fram filters to be superior to virtually all other brands. I used Frams for many years, including on my 12.5:1 compression cross-ram Hemi Cuda, my 1978 Ford pickup with the 300 inch six, etc. But with the recent info available on the internet, I won't use Frams given the other options. Fram does not use cardboard end caps because they are better in any way--they use them because they are CHEAPER. And, from photos of Frams of all types that have been cut apart, it has always appeared to me that the pleat spacing is more uneven, and the glue joints just look sloppier to me.

The major defense of Fram on the internet is "I've used hundreds of them and never had a problem"....so it doesn't seem to matter that they're built cheaply? I don't think I've ever seen a thread that shows how Frams are superior in any way to any other quality filter at the same price point in terms of construction. Frams remind me of the old Krusty the Clown saying "it's not just good, it's good enough"....

A leaky anti drainback valve, or an internal leak at a glue joint, will generally not kill an engine quickly so that a warrranty claim can be made. However, it can just make an engine wear out just a bit faster (say at 120k miles instead of 180k). Any oil filter is a leap of faith for the user. I have more faith in the ones whose design and materials impress me.

George

 

I looked at a wix filter for my '09 V10 and it appears to me that it is made the same way as the Motorcraft filter and the way Ford recommends. The by-pass valve appears to be at the threaded end and has the silicone anti drain back valve and metal endcaps.

Could anybody confirm my observations?

Seems like the wix would be a good/safe substitute for the Motorcraft filter even under warranty.

 

and what ever happened to the original poster/thread starter? He said he was going to report back and with pictures?

I hate it when someone leaves us hanging!

 

Art, We dug the filter material out of the oil pump and oil galleries. It was under the valve covers and even in the valve train valley. What really surprised me was finding that trash in the center oil cutouts of the main and rod bearings. It was burned into the bearings. The same was found on the camshaft bearings. We were using 15-40 Valvoline in the engine. Had been from the day I bought the truck new. So, too heavy of oil, Not. I know that the 351M400 had minor oiling issues (not enough for the cam). So the first thing I changed, even while the truck was under warranty, was to replace the factory oil pump with a factory high flow unit from Ford Racing (actually it was a Melling Pump). It idled at 35 and under load if I remember right it was near 80. It would just about peg the factory gauge. You did not want to stand by it running with the valve cover off. The oil would cut you into two pieces.

It had a mind of its own. It did not matter if it was loaded or empty, in 4X4 or not, running 55 mph or running 100, it would pull between 450 and 470 miles on a tank (19 gal) of gas.

I rebuilt it after the "damn fram" problem and put over 200K on the engine. I have never had one like it since.

 

You are correct in everything else, but the anti-drainback valve seals against the metal end cap. Oil flows from the outside of the filter media to the inside. If you look at the "flap" of the anti-drainback valve, it seals against the metal end cap.

 

Bizarre

 

I have always used nothing but Motorcraft on ford engine since I was 17 years old (42 now) and have never had a oil/filter related failure.

 

I have always used nothing but Fram on Ford, Chevy and Chrysler engines since I was 18 years old (59 now) and have never had a oil/filter related failure.