I know this is going to be a long post, but I want everyone to have the complete story.

I am currently building a 48 ford with a 429ci. The 429 is complete and has been running and has about 10 miles on it (5 years). I decided to install a new distributor and that's where the problems began. While removing the old distributor the oil pump shaft clip broke and the shaft fell into the oil pan. After removing the steering linkage and the oil pump the pan came out (I really don't want to do that again). I had to install the oil pump with the pan in place while feeling my way to install. I still believe I did everything correct, but more on that later.

After installing the second dist (the 1st was incorrect) there was no oil pressure. Turns out the electric gauge was not getting power. Fixing this still did not help. I then installed the old mechanic gauge with no change. I removed the valve cover to find only a dry head. Then, I removed the dist and used a drill to turn the pump. Started out going in the wrong direction, after reversing and going for a few seconds CCW the pump became really hard to turn. I still didn't see any evidence of oil on the heads (not sure I should have or not). I removed one of the filters (I have two remote filters mounted vertical) and oil starting pouring out. Seems that oil is getting there at least. I reinstalled the dist and fired it up, but still not pressure. I ran it for a total of about 20-25 seconds the 4 or 5 times I started it.

Future checks: I will remove the valve cover again and make sure the gauge is ok. Also, I am going to remove the return line for the remote filters and see if it is pumping back to the engine. If those don't reveal something I am out of solutions. I really don't want to remove that oil pan again if I don't have to.

I know this is really long, but I am desperate for help. Everything ran great until the shaft fell. Since, the only change is the distributor (and removal/reinstall of the oil pump).

Thanks,

Desperate in Mobile

 

Hi and welcome to FTE

Your story is not that long (from one who can type) and your problem is not too complex.

I have a couple questions. I am running a 390 with a remote "Frantz" oil filter and a remote oil cooler

First, are you certain the oil pump shaft is properly seated in the pump? Second, did the distrubutor install correctly.

With remote filters, you need to pre fill them or it can take up to a minute to get oil back to the engine.

Second, remove all your spark plugs and shoot about 3 squirts in each cylinder of ATF to ensure the rings are lubricated. Reinstall the plugs.

So, from a to z you need to: remove the oil line coming from your remote oil filter adapter for the outbound oil. Crank the motor to see if oil is being delivered from the pump.

If it is, reconnect the line and bleed or preoil your filters. Then disconnect the inbound line at the remote oil filter adapter. Crank the engine and check to see that oil is circulating through your system. If it is, then you should be fine.

If you aren't getting oil flow out of the outbound side, the oil pump is not functioning and you are going to have to pull the distributor and reinstall the drive shaft. If it is flowing then you just need to pre oil/bleed the filters and then crank.

Once the oil is evident at the line returning from your filters going back into the block at the oil filter adapter, it should take about 10 seconds MAX for the oil to reach the heads.

If this is a newly rebuilt engine, and you have oil pressure finally and fire it up, be sure to run it for 20 minutes at 1300-1500 rpm to break in the new cam.

 

Thanks for the reply.

The engine has been running with about 80 psi. I've been starting it regularly over the past 5 years while restoring the truck.

The distributor fell into place after moving the rotor so I believe that it has seated correctly. Also, with a drill I was able to rotate the pump shaft. At first I was turning it CW and was hearing it gurgle in the oil. I then reversed the drill and it turned for a few seconds easily before getting really hard on the drill. I was expecting to see some oil in the heads at this point, but maybe it wouldn't. So, I think it is seated correctly in the pump. When I removed one of the filters the was a lot of oil. I had pre-filled them with a quart of oil before, but now it has a lot more. That is why I think they are getting oil.

I was a little confused with which lines to remove. If I remove the incoming line to the filters and oil is pumping then the oil pump is working. Then if I check the outgoing line at the block and there is oil pumping I can eliminate the filters or the lines being the problem. Is this correct thinking?

 

sorry, was a duplicate post

 

Yes that's correct and everything is working.

If this is a tryed and driven engine set up, then if the oil pump shaft is properly seated back in the pump, then everything should be fine.

Also, you may want to go buy a new mechanical oil pressure guage, mount it to an auxiliary oil pressure sourece and see if it registers pressure.

 

Some interesting if not necessary helpful reading over at the 385 FTE site; Maybe ask them?

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...archid=1055686

You know ..............this whole wrong distributor and oil pump intermediate shaft thing bothers me.

Why was the first new dist wrong? When you replaced the shaft did you put the clip on and where does it go? Is it a high volume or pressure oil pump? Hummm!

 

The distributor is a two piece unit with the gear/oil pump shaft a separate piece. It originally had the 1/4" hex. The second one they sent was too large, but had the 5/16" shaft. So, I changed the gear and made sure it worked with the old oil pump shaft which had the broken clip. The new shaft with the new clip was the same size. And this is a high volume oil pump, but puts out 80 psi. I've got to come up with some tests before I take that oil pan off again. With a one piece gasket and my space constraints it is a nightmare.

 

Is this a Melling High Volume pump? Also, there is a big difference between a high volume and a high pressure oil pump. My melling high volume pump produces about 40 psi. I'm just trying to gain a vision of your set up.

 

Ah, now we are getting some where. This is my Mallory for my 460, same thing right? When you say two piece gear shaft you do not mean the pinned / attached gear? All that keeps oil pressure happening is that little pin.

dist 460 small.jpg

This is just from memory, which is not that reliable, but I have read many posts on 429/460 distributor gear teeth shearing and oil pump problems, with the bottom line, from what I can determine is not to use a high pressure pump unless necessary. It appears to be a weak point.

No offense but is the dist rotor turning when cranking or have you pulled the distributor again since no oil pressure to check the gear/shaft?

 

I'm with Old F1. I believe that the oil pump, dist, and drive should be 5/16". The drive gear should be a tight press fit and pinned. The pin itself shouldn't the only thing holding the gear as it could shear eventually. I continue priming the oil pump until I have oil at all the rockers.

 

On the 385 site one guy was talking about how much priming power the 429/460 oil pumps (high?) take to turn, he said that he almost burnt out his drill. All that priming will tell you is that the pump is working, not if it is being driven by the cam/dist/shaft etc.

 

In addition to the other replies, I would prime it again, rotate the crank 90 degrees, prime some more, rotate it, and so on until you've primed it through one full revolution of the crankshaft. Do this before you try starting it again. You've ran it enough at this point without oil pressure that you definitely need to make sure you've got some oil on the bearings before going forward or you might be risking pulling that oil pan for a set of bearings instead of an oil pump. With cold oil, it might take a minute or two to see oil at the heads, but that is a sure sign that you're circulating properly.

 

okay to reply to some of the post, the distributor is the same size as the oil pump shaft and the gear along with the short shaft that connects to the oil pump is a separate unit. I just removed the dist and everything is intact. So, the dist should be turning the oil pump.

I removed the return line from the remote oil filters at the block. I put that hose into a bucket to see if oil was flowing through the oil filters. I didn't do anything with the open hole at the block (adapter). I didn't expect to see any oil here. Keep in mind I didn't remove the adapter and it has worked perfectly for the last couple of years. When I started to prime the engine, oil started pouring out of the open hole in the adapter. Now why would oil be coming out of that hole? I am turning the drill CCW. What is going on?

 

Well, I have disconnected all my hoses for the remote oil filter and found something interested. But before I say it I would like to say that I did connect this a couple of years ago and didn't keep the instructions. After relocating the filters, I connected the lines from the out of the adapter to the in on the filters. Then from the out of the filters to the in of the adapter. When I disconnected the hoses and primed the engine, the hole that read in for the adapter was the hole the oil flowed out. So, I guess I was supposed to hook the in to the in and the out to the out. Seems backwards, but I will give it a try. I was hoping I could get someone to give me a thumbs up on this way of connecting.

 

What you want to make sure of is that the oil enters the filter through the center nipple that the filter screws onto. This is critical. If it's backwards, then you'll be trying to pump oil against the anti-drainback valve in the filter and that would certainly cause you to not have any oil pressure. That definitely sounds like what you have been experiencing. The pump is moving oil and building pressure, but it can't push it past the anti-drainback valve in the filter. Instead it just dumps it across the pressure relief valve in the pump.