Crank and pulley seperation. can't do it.
#31
04-30-2009, 01:26 PM
ok, you qualified that, and I'm not sure what it means I've had 3 ford V8s, 289, 302 and my 460 (all with what I consider to be overhead valves) and in each case the pulley was not part of the balancer.. and I KNOW you have seen those.. so what V8 were you talking about? Sam
239/256/272/292/312/330/332/351C/351W/352/360/361/390/391/400/406/427/428.
I don't recall what a 221/260/289/302, or a 429/460 damper looks like. I've owned exactly one car with a 289, never owned anything with a 429/460...so you could be right.
The other engines above I've either worked on, or owned the vehicles that came with them (I've owned 82 FoMoCo products since 1956)...so I know these dampers had pulley's made as part of them.
And: 144/170/200/215/223/240/250/300 I-6's came this way too.
#33
04-30-2009, 09:23 PM
Fleet Owner
Pick one:
239/256/272/292/312/330/332/351C/351W/352/360/361/390/391/400/406/427/428.
I don't recall what a 221/260/289/302, or a 429/460 damper looks like. I've owned exactly one car with a 289, never owned anything with a 429/460...so you could be right.
The other engines above I've either worked on, or owned the vehicles that came with them (I've owned 82 FoMoCo products since 1956)...so I know these dampers had pulley's made as part of them.
And: 144/170/200/215/223/240/250/300 I-6's came this way too.
239/256/272/292/312/330/332/351C/351W/352/360/361/390/391/400/406/427/428.
I don't recall what a 221/260/289/302, or a 429/460 damper looks like. I've owned exactly one car with a 289, never owned anything with a 429/460...so you could be right.
The other engines above I've either worked on, or owned the vehicles that came with them (I've owned 82 FoMoCo products since 1956)...so I know these dampers had pulley's made as part of them.
And: 144/170/200/215/223/240/250/300 I-6's came this way too.
#34
04-30-2009, 10:02 PM
Sorry I haven't been around, I didn't have access to a comp until now.
Well, this morning, I used the puller to get the pulley/balancer off,a nd it worked. But the celebration was short lived, and now I'm even more stuck(and down in the dunps) than before. I took the timing cover off to find three more problems...: The timing chain, the cam gear, and the crank gear...:
How do you remove the chain is my first and simplest question?
But the two cog's are the biggest issue. They are both pressed on, how do I get those off, I thought about it and looked at them for the longest time but can't figure it out.
Worst of all, there is a groove in the crank sproket, and a little bump on the crank that the groove slides over. well, the sproket is not lined up properly and If it's pressed on there, how can I turn it so it lines up with the groove on the cog so I can remove it? Is it not supposed to be removed?
Well, this morning, I used the puller to get the pulley/balancer off,a nd it worked. But the celebration was short lived, and now I'm even more stuck(and down in the dunps) than before. I took the timing cover off to find three more problems...: The timing chain, the cam gear, and the crank gear...:
How do you remove the chain is my first and simplest question?
But the two cog's are the biggest issue. They are both pressed on, how do I get those off, I thought about it and looked at them for the longest time but can't figure it out.
Worst of all, there is a groove in the crank sproket, and a little bump on the crank that the groove slides over. well, the sproket is not lined up properly and If it's pressed on there, how can I turn it so it lines up with the groove on the cog so I can remove it? Is it not supposed to be removed?
#35
04-30-2009, 10:29 PM
Lets see, what is the best way to explain this:
#1. The crank sprocket (small one), the cam sprocket(large one) and the chain all come off at the same time.
#2. The "bump" on the crank shaft is a "woodruff key"(sp?). That is to allow the dampner to spin with the crankshaft. It is a half moon shaped key and can be removed by tapping it with a screwdriver or drift at the outer end, it will pop out. remove this first.
#3 you will see a key slot and key in both of the sprockets. These are not pressed on but may take a little to break them loose.
#4. slide both off the shafts at the same time until one clears (the cam sprocket) and then you can remove the timing chain and cam sprocket. After that remove the crank shaft sprocket.
#5. Note that the crank sprocket will have a timing mark in the center of one tooth. The camshaft sprocket will have a timing mark on the center of two teeth .
#6. Re-install in reverse sequence. Make sure you position the crank and cam so that when you install the sprockets and chain, the crank timing mark tooth is in between the two timing marks on the cam sprocket. You can check this with a straight edge.
#7. I'm doing this from memory so check your manual to make sure I told you correct on the timing position. Hope this helps.
Gil
#1. The crank sprocket (small one), the cam sprocket(large one) and the chain all come off at the same time.
#2. The "bump" on the crank shaft is a "woodruff key"(sp?). That is to allow the dampner to spin with the crankshaft. It is a half moon shaped key and can be removed by tapping it with a screwdriver or drift at the outer end, it will pop out. remove this first.
#3 you will see a key slot and key in both of the sprockets. These are not pressed on but may take a little to break them loose.
#4. slide both off the shafts at the same time until one clears (the cam sprocket) and then you can remove the timing chain and cam sprocket. After that remove the crank shaft sprocket.
#5. Note that the crank sprocket will have a timing mark in the center of one tooth. The camshaft sprocket will have a timing mark on the center of two teeth .
#6. Re-install in reverse sequence. Make sure you position the crank and cam so that when you install the sprockets and chain, the crank timing mark tooth is in between the two timing marks on the cam sprocket. You can check this with a straight edge.
#7. I'm doing this from memory so check your manual to make sure I told you correct on the timing position. Hope this helps.
Gil
#36
05-01-2009, 01:01 AM
Post Fiend
That's ok Sam,
My 289, 351C, 360, 390, and 429 ALL had the pulleys bolted on the balance too (as did my Chevy 350s, Pontiac 400, and Buick 262) And as Ross mentioned they were bolted on because with cars (trucks) that had different options such as power streering or air conditioning might have two or even three sheaves - so the pulleys were bolted on the balance to support the number of turning thingys. But I think on the early 223 where youwre just turning water pump and generator, it may have been riveted or pressed on. Not sure.
My 289, 351C, 360, 390, and 429 ALL had the pulleys bolted on the balance too (as did my Chevy 350s, Pontiac 400, and Buick 262) And as Ross mentioned they were bolted on because with cars (trucks) that had different options such as power streering or air conditioning might have two or even three sheaves - so the pulleys were bolted on the balance to support the number of turning thingys. But I think on the early 223 where youwre just turning water pump and generator, it may have been riveted or pressed on. Not sure.
#37
05-01-2009, 01:06 AM
I don't have a manual...... 
That is some good info.
So let me get this strait, I need to take note of it's postiion before I take it apart. What do you mean about the timing marks on the gears and checking with a strait-edge? Im sort of confused?
Thank you very much.(I'm on a friends comp right now, probably won't be able to resond for a while..)
That is some good info.
So let me get this strait, I need to take note of it's postiion before I take it apart. What do you mean about the timing marks on the gears and checking with a strait-edge? Im sort of confused?
Thank you very much.(I'm on a friends comp right now, probably won't be able to resond for a while..)
#38
05-01-2009, 01:15 AM
Post Fiend
There are two little circles (or maybe triangles or lines) stamped on the faces of the of the two timing gears. When you put it together these two marks need to face each other - in a straight line. You need to turn the engine by hand in order to ensure these two marks are aligned BEFORE you pull the gears off and they are aligned when you put the new ones on.
Its time (actually way past time) for a shop manual - $25 on e-bay.
Its time (actually way past time) for a shop manual - $25 on e-bay.
#39
05-01-2009, 02:18 AM
There are two little circles (or maybe triangles or lines) stamped on the faces of the of the two timing gears. When you put it together these two marks need to face each other - in a straight line. You need to turn the engine by hand in order to ensure these two marks are aligned BEFORE you pull the gears off and they are aligned when you put the new ones on.
Its time (actually way past time) for a shop manual - $25 on e-bay.
Its time (actually way past time) for a shop manual - $25 on e-bay.
Second of all, can I find that book from a book store?
#40
05-01-2009, 04:39 AM
In addition, Ford offered one, two and on some engines...three sheave outer pulleys that bolted on to the balancer for accessories such as: dual belt alternators, P/S, A/C, and a smog pump.
Original and reprints of Ford factory shop manuals: faxonautolit.com which is located in Riverside CA.
#41
05-01-2009, 07:15 AM
why remove them? its the only way to replace the chain.
don't worry so much about getting it s special spot on disassembly, it only matters when you put it back together.
this timing chain does two things,
1. causes the valves to operate in synch with the pistons
2. maintains the relationship in time for that relationship.
the two little marks on the gears are provided to help the installed insure that the proper timing relationship is set. you line the two dots up
as you put the chain and gears on their respective rotating parts.
sam
#42
05-01-2009, 12:41 PM
I already know pretty well about how engines opperate, so at least I have that down.
^"don't worry so much about getting it s special spot on disassembly, it only matters when you put it back together."
This is exactly what I wanted to hear.
Only reason for ordering from a book store is that I don't have the ability to buy stuff online, so it makes it easier to buy stuff locally than it does for me to hunt someone down with a credit-card that can.
Once again, thank you all very much, I'll be working on it in a few hours, and hopefully get it completely disassembled today.
OK, so before I go into town and find out the hard way, I'm gonna ask this once and for all: ALL OF THE ABOVE(quote) DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY SPECIAL TOOLS! (I'm sorry for not having the manual, julie; I can see you slaping your forehead right now...)
^"don't worry so much about getting it s special spot on disassembly, it only matters when you put it back together."
This is exactly what I wanted to hear.
Only reason for ordering from a book store is that I don't have the ability to buy stuff online, so it makes it easier to buy stuff locally than it does for me to hunt someone down with a credit-card that can.
Once again, thank you all very much, I'll be working on it in a few hours, and hopefully get it completely disassembled today.
Lets see, what is the best way to explain this:
#1. The crank sprocket (small one), the cam sprocket(large one) and the chain all come off at the same time.
#2. The "bump" on the crank shaft is a "woodruff key"(sp?). That is to allow the dampner to spin with the crankshaft. It is a half moon shaped key and can be removed by tapping it with a screwdriver or drift at the outer end, it will pop out. remove this first.
#3 you will see a key slot and key in both of the sprockets. These are not pressed on but may take a little to break them loose.
#4. slide both off the shafts at the same time until one clears (the cam sprocket) and then you can remove the timing chain and cam sprocket. After that remove the crank shaft sprocket.
#5. Note that the crank sprocket will have a timing mark in the center of one tooth. The camshaft sprocket will have a timing mark on the center of two teeth .
#6. Re-install in reverse sequence. Make sure you position the crank and cam so that when you install the sprockets and chain, the crank timing mark tooth is in between the two timing marks on the cam sprocket. You can check this with a straight edge.
#7. I'm doing this from memory so check your manual to make sure I told you correct on the timing position. Hope this helps.
Gil
#1. The crank sprocket (small one), the cam sprocket(large one) and the chain all come off at the same time.
#2. The "bump" on the crank shaft is a "woodruff key"(sp?). That is to allow the dampner to spin with the crankshaft. It is a half moon shaped key and can be removed by tapping it with a screwdriver or drift at the outer end, it will pop out. remove this first.
#3 you will see a key slot and key in both of the sprockets. These are not pressed on but may take a little to break them loose.
#4. slide both off the shafts at the same time until one clears (the cam sprocket) and then you can remove the timing chain and cam sprocket. After that remove the crank shaft sprocket.
#5. Note that the crank sprocket will have a timing mark in the center of one tooth. The camshaft sprocket will have a timing mark on the center of two teeth .
#6. Re-install in reverse sequence. Make sure you position the crank and cam so that when you install the sprockets and chain, the crank timing mark tooth is in between the two timing marks on the cam sprocket. You can check this with a straight edge.
#7. I'm doing this from memory so check your manual to make sure I told you correct on the timing position. Hope this helps.
Gil
#43
05-01-2009, 12:44 PM
Fleet Owner
#44
05-01-2009, 01:19 PM
That is correct, no special tools are required to remove the timing chain and the sprockets. A long screw driver of pry bar will work. (gently!)
I agree with others, you need to get access to a manual. Each truck and each engine is a little different. The timing marks will be applied a little differently for different engines. Even those of us who have done this for many years, must refer to the manual to make sure we are getting every thing installed correctly.
That being said, this is how you learn. All of us, at one time in our life, were in the same place you are now. We had someone to show us or someone to ask. Don't be shy about asking questions, we are glad to help.
Gil
I agree with others, you need to get access to a manual. Each truck and each engine is a little different. The timing marks will be applied a little differently for different engines. Even those of us who have done this for many years, must refer to the manual to make sure we are getting every thing installed correctly.
That being said, this is how you learn. All of us, at one time in our life, were in the same place you are now. We had someone to show us or someone to ask. Don't be shy about asking questions, we are glad to help.
Gil
#45
05-01-2009, 05:13 PM
I got the cam gear off easily, but the other gear on the crank didn't want to come off, so I just left it on for now(I know I'll ahve to remove it eventually).
But now I ran into the last issue. THE PISTONS. They are running into the main bulkheads so I can't pull them out from the bottom. But as sson as they get to the top...they want to stop! Now, my dad already told me there is some type of sleeve tool that "compresses the rings" so you can pull them out(the pistons), but just for the heck of it, I got a wooden block and tried to gently tap one out from the end of the rod, it didn't want to come out, so I didn't push it and left it alone....
So, do i really need this tool, or can I just "punch" them out like I was trying before? I was afraid I'd mess up the cylinder walls by forcing the ring to punch through whatever is stopping them, that's why I didn't keep hitting harder until the piston dropped out.
Any advice? Thank you very mcuh
P.S.--About the manual, I' guess I'll end up having to find someone to buy it for me, maybe in the next couple of days.....but until then, I got you guys/gals!!!!
