ditz,
OK, I think I got the picture. That problem has nothing to do with amperages or wire speed. There is something that the .023 wire is binding on and it sounds like its right at the tip. The first thing to do would be to remove the nozzle and the tip and see how the wire feed through the cable and gun. If it feeds just fine then the issue is with the tip itself or how it screws into the gun.
Check the .023 tip and compare it to your .030 tip, specifically the end that screws into the gun. They should have the same length of threads, etc. so that the tip bottoms against the end of the cable where the wire comes out.

As far as the actual welding part of it, it will just take some practice. I do my share of burnign through as well. Theres a delicate balance between wire speed, amperage, how fast you move, and how much you manipulate the puddle.

Bobby

 

No, it sounds like he is saying it hangs up before feeding into the cable inside the machine. Is the cable fully inserted into the machine? Is it an older machine that has had a lot of wire run thru it? Have you tried loosening the roller pressure until after the wire is fed thru to the tip, or feeding it by hand without any roller pressure? Did you ajust the roller pressure as specified in the owners manual? Remove the cable and see if the wire will feed out of the machine, then try hand feeding a length of wire thru the disconnected cable by hand. If it hangs without the cable connected, then look for a burr at the connector. If you cannot easily feed a wire thru the cable by hand then the inside teflon sheath has been damaged and will need to be replaced. The .023 wire you bought isn't aluminum by any chance (.023 steel wire is pretty stiff and shouldn't birdsnest)? I'd try a spool of wire from a welding supply rather than from a big box DIY store. What is the lowest setting amp spec for your welder? Are you using the amp setting and wire feed speed recommended by the welder manufacturer for the thickness of wire and steel? There is usually a chart under the machine's cover or in the instruction manual. That chart will also indicate the thinnest material the machine is capable of welding reliably. I think the chart in my Hobart 140 goes down to 24 ga steel. Last thing did you set the polarity for gas shielded welding rather than flux core? Usually they come with the polarity set for flux core and needs to be reversed when switching over to solid wire/shielding gas.

 

Thanks to all for the help. If I can get to the shop tomorrow I will give it another college try.

 

I always remove the tip when feeding the wire then install the tip over the wire once fed through the nozzle. The only other thing the wire could be binding on is the liner/nozzle attachment, which as Bobby indicated above could be easily rectified by taking it apart. As far as you welder goes, you should have no problem as you will see in the manual I posted a link for, your welder is rated for that size of wire.

I burn through with my small 110V Lincoln Weld-Pak 100HD. This is a much smaller welder than yours and I still burn through. Trust me, Its not the welder, this old metal is much different than today's steel and the low carbon content in the old steel vs the higher carbon content in the new steel, including the electrode (wire), coupled with the fact that rust over time has made the metal thickness very uneven and when excessive heat is "chased" to a thin spot....shazam....burn through occurs.

As mentioned patience and practice prevails. Weld sheet steel in short segments (the thinner the metal the shorter the weld segment should be) move around from one side of the work area to the other spacing you welds as far apart as possible. Once you have made one complete round of spot welds allow the work area to cool down and begin the process again. Mind the work area for warpage and I would suggest that you take some classes at a local trades centre or similar educational facility.

I myself am in an industry that has many welders in it, I am a Pipeline Construction Consultant and am fortunate enough to have a number of welders as friends and ex-welders as colleagues, all of whom have either provided advise, suggested resources or helped shown me the way....There is a ton of information on the net and as soon as I get a chance I will send you some links to some useful information in a PM if you would like.

Keep lay'n bead buddy...

 

Another common cause of burnthru is not clipping the wire between welds. I keep a pair of needle nose pliers right on my welding bench that are dedicated to welding use only. I clip the wire back to 1/4" from the stinger tip before each weld to remove any melted ball or bent wire on the end and present a consistantly clean sharp end to start each weld. A ball on the end of the wire is like using that thick of wire, results in excessive heat and thus burn thru when starting. The thin tips of the plier jaw are also just right for cleaning weld spatter out of the nozzle, or changing a hot tip. A jar of tip dip used every couple hours of use will extend the life of tips and give more consistant welds as well.

 

AXracer........some questions I can answer but some I can not answer from here at work. The .023 wire would go thru most, if not all of the cable but would get hung up clear up somewhere by the nozzle. I have removed the tip and gas shroud but the wire was not quite getting that far. I doubt that the welder has 4 hours of actual weld time and most of that is play or practice and 95% is with .035 wire. All of my wire is steel. I worked as a quality engineer in an al. die cast foundry for 7 years so I am familiar with aluminum. There is a chart on the inside of the weld wire case lid and I always start with thier recommendations and adjust a little if needed. It has been so long since I have played with sheet that I can not remember what settings I tried but I am sure the amperage was at the low setting or close to it. I think the numbers run from 1 to 10 and I do not know how that translate to amps but '1' is low. I think I did try to feed thru by hand but was not successful. I believe that I set the polarity as instructed by Miller but maybe I need to look at that again though I have no trouble welding thicker material. I have not learned to 'see' the weld pool very well and tend to get more weld than is needed. I recently talked to one of the fellas at the weld shop about seeing the pool and he sold me a new glass that has a gold reflectance and is a #10 instead of a #11. I haven't used it much since but it did seem to help seeing the pool. Maybe I could remove the gun from the cable to get a better insight into the problem. Is this a wise thing to do?

 

I have not read every detail....so I may be way off base here.

If the small wire is not feeding though the line properly (said it is balling up before the tip), is is possible he has too large of a liner in it. I know the make different sizes for the industrial machines I used to use. If we had the large liner and fed very small wire though it it would ball up inside the liner (before the tip-even if the tip was correct).


Check to see what size liner you are using. Then see what sizes are available for your machine.

I have not done so yet (have not welded on my vehicle body yet), but I was told that we can get a smaller liner for our Lincoln 220V machine.

 

i have a clarke wich i paid 300 for came with cart and gas setup have had no problems with it in the 4 years i've had it fil has a centry hes had it for over 10 years has built 5 cars with it and he welds allum and ss with it both the centry and the clarke take the big spools of wire someone metiond the duty cycly not really a problem unless your going to weld for a long time continuously i've only had 1 prob with it and that was building a trailer

 

ditz,
I am a little confused. Just to first be sure we are talking about the same machine: You say you have a Miller 185, but Miller's web site shows their current machine in that size range is the Millermatic 180. Doing a quick scan of the list of discontinued models shows only a couple 185s and most of those came with a spool gun. You also say that there has been very little use on your machine, so I assume you bought it new? Was this a discontinued model? Is it still under warantee? Can you tell me the exact model and serial # of your machine? (you need the serial # to pull up owner's manuals for machines not currently being produced)

 

the fact that 035 wire will go thru but not 023 seems to indicate a problem with the liner, where the wire is catching.. near the handle.

I would try this for a test,
pull the wire out of the gun
remove the tip
feed a section of 023 in from the tip end to see if it catches as well.
my guess is that it won't..
sounds like the liner is not completely installed at the handle base.

don't know how you reinstall the liner myself..

Sam

 

Brian might be onto something here, I think there are different liner sizes for different ranges of wires but I can't quite remember. Several years ago I ran a fabrication shop building components to put cell antennas on water towers (welding on thick stuff is alot easier than welding on thin stuff). Replacing a liner is fairly easy.

Just a side note: After I run through a spool of wire and before I install the new spool Ilike to blow back through the liner with compressed air and blow the crud out of it.

ditz,
once you get the wire all the way through the gun and everything so that its coming out the tip will it continue to feed ok or does it ball up again?
How long of a gun are you running? If you are running the long gun then the .023 wire might not be strong enough to push all the way through (similar to why you need to run a spool gun with aluminum.....the wire isn't strong enough to push all the way through the gun) I have a 10' gun with my Millermatic 135 and don't have any problems.

Bobby

 

Whew!! So much help and info and I am overwhelmed and appreciative. I did buy the machine new a few years ago and I think the following year it was replaced with a model 200???? It is a Millermatic 185 M-15 ser# P 0051 and it has the 10' cable. It does not have a spool gun and I am sure that it is no longer under warranty. The mention of the owners manual got me to thinking so I dug out the manual that I had put up after originally setting up the machine. "when all else fails, read the instructions" The manual does show a liner for the .023 wire. It sounds like you fellas would recommend putting in the smaller liner when using the small wire. I do use the tip dip and I also do change the tip size when changing wire size. Someone asked if the small wire feeds ok if I get it thru the tip and the one time I did get it thru it did feed OK. When the wire ***** up it does it between the feeder rolls and where it enters the liner but the actual end of the wire is somewhere up by the gun. The setting chart on the inside of the spool cover does indicate that .023 wire is useable and I am a little put off that the Miller Rep told me that it was not useable.

I apologize for hijacking this thread. It was not my intent but it sure has been helpful to me. Thanks again for the help

 

The liner replacement steps make it sound like the liner is too short

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1313p_mil.pdf (page 21)

To Reassemble Gun:
Insert new liner.
Install and tighten wire outlet guide.
Cut liner off 3/4 in (20 mm) from head tube


Sam

 

Sdetweil

That is exactly the wording in my manual. Out of my ignorance, why do you think that this would result in a too short liner and how long should it be.

 

Not 'result in', rather 'indicates that' the liner is too short on your current setup. (dignosing problem from surrounding data)

The fact that you can feed from tip end, but not from the feed end implies a liner problem.

The liner is supposed to go all the way thru the handle.. sounds like its not..

I also have a 180, and have never changed the liner, and swap wire sizes without problem, so it can't be the liner size..

Sam