Yep. They make front sump Cummins 6bt's. We can get them.

 

Gigity gigity gigity goo!

Ray

 

You allright man?

 

40K miles and 400+ hp. Spend about a much time pulling a trailer as not. No problems.

 

http://www.fordcummins.com

Ya'll might be interested in this sight too. I'm going to check out the other one but I spent alot of time looking at this fordcummins website.

 

Are the Cummins from 89 to 93 the same as the 94 to 97? As long as they are all the IDI are they the same to install?

How do the early Ford diesels with aftermarket turbos compare to the cummins? Specifically power, milage and ease of swap?

The Ford diesel seems like it would be a cheaper option.

 

The Ford is cheaper for a reason - less desirable. They 94.5 is the best for diesel for ease of swap. It is the last year of non powerjoke(stroke), so it is mechanically injected (1 wire to make it run means easier swap), but it is turbocharged and has a decent amount of power.

Personally cummins is the way to go IMO.

The 1st gen cummins are a 12v mechanically injected motor. The later models are 12v or 24v electronically injected. The electronically injected ones can make a bit more HP, but they take more effort to install due to more wiring.

The 89-91.5 cummins were non-intercooled. 91.5-93 were intercooled. They put out about 160 hp stock, but that can be cranked up to about 250 for FREE. They kept these things pretty de-tuned from the factory because they were worried about tranny warranties.

www.cumminsforum.com has some pretty good info if you need more specifics

 

So when did they change to the electronic injectors? Was it before 1998?

 

Electronics on the Dodge Ram with the Cummins started in 1998.5, the switch from the 12v to the 24v. The best years for donors on these are 1996-1998.5 in the 5spd, non-California trucks. They come with the 215hp P7100 pump. Auto's came with the 180hp P7100 - though they can be converted with delivery valves. 1994-1996 Came with a slightly less rated P7100 pump (numbers escape me, but 160hp rings a bell).

Lots of folks claim the holy grail of 12v cummins trucks is the 1998-1998.5 quad cab - all 4 doors opened only for half a year and they still had the 12v great mpg and ease to work on. They are simple and safe to get 400rwp/800ftlbs and have great drivetrains: NV4500/NP241DLD (and DHD) xfer cases, and Dana 60 axles up front, with Dana 80's in the back of the 5spds. Once you kept that 5th gear nut on, you had a drivetrain that will outlast the chrysler skin around it!

I'm running a mostly stock (for now!) Cummins/NV4500/NP241DLD in a 1978 Crew 4x4 with dana 60's, it gets 18mpg mixed driving, 20-21mpg on the highway at 65mph, and would run in the high 16's in the 1/4 mile if I could hit my 4th-5th shift (based on the 17.1s duramax in the other lane that I had by 2 full lenghts at the 1/8 mile!).

I also have a ton of experience on a 1992 Dodge Cummins with a Bosch VE. It is a great engine, dynos at 250rwhp/650rwtq like the above post said, though I used injectors ($450 for all 6) and a $150 turbo housing to make the change rather than increase the pump pressure too much. The pump is not as durable as the P7100, but some folks get a lot of hp out of them without blowing them up - that 2wd old truck will get 23mpg driving at 65 on the highway, and tows 5tons of hay getting 14-15mpg, and runs a 16.4 1/4 mile limited by traction on the take-off.

Thanks, jon.

 

What rear end and size of tires do you have in both of the trucks? I have the 4.10 with 36 inch tires and am curisous what the mileage would be like.

Is there any point in getting a truck without an intercooler?

 

Your mpg with 36's and a 4.10 is gonna be lower. I am running 3.54 gears in both trucks. I was getting 19-20 in the the Ford on 265/75/16 (31's) and it dropped to 18 on the 285/75/16's (33's). Part of that is I am running lower tire pressures on the 33's, they are BFG A/T's - 50psi or so. On the old E-Rated tires I was running 70psi and higher.

The old dodge is just running 265/75/16's at 70-80psi. Speed is the difference with it - I get 18 doing 80mph, I get 23 doing 60-65mph.

As for an intercooler, there are some positives for not having one. Cheaper - easy to find inexpensive 1989-1991.5 Dodge setups. They are strong, and get great mpg. Plus, it is way easier to plumb the engine in - not wedging the intercooler in there, cutting holes in the radiator support and inder fender wells (unless you flip it upside down - I suggest that if you use one). If you are wanting big power though, you have no choice but to put one in. Once in, they are pretty hassle free.

jon

 

Can the motors without the intercooler be bumped up some with out any damage? Is 200 or 250 possible? What would the max be?

How many horse is "big power" for the intercooled?

What would it cost to add an intercooler to the early motors?

 

The 89-91.5 motors can be bumped (I have an early 91 = no intercooler), but you will run into problems with higher EGTS if you don't add an intercooler. You can probably get 250 or so HP before you REALLY run into EGT problems, but a pyrometer (EGT gauge) is a MUST if you want to do any mods to the pump/motor.

I have no IC in the dodge now, but will definitely be adding one when I throw the motor in my 74 crew cab. I figure I am going through all the custom work of putting the motor in - what more could an IC be... I have heard of fitmetn trouble with our grill shells, but I'll have to figure that out when I get there. I am modifying a core support to run hood pins for a fiberglass hood and possibly a dual pass, cross flow radiator, so I'll see what more it takes to fit the IC.

You ask how many horse is "big power" for those with an IC. I assume this is still for the Gen 1 - (ICs were on 91.5-93). People can get 400 or so out of them, but that's about as much as the VE pump will put up with. After that it's P-pump conversion time

As for cost to add an intercooler - that all depends on your skill level. Will you be installing, or will you be paying someone else to do it? The intercooler itself can be had for $125-$400 or more depending on what you want and where you buy. I am looking for a take off from a newer Stupid-duty you put on the crew when I do my motor swap.
You will need the IC itself, all hoses and t-bolt clamps ($50+ for all that) and then the intake manifold off an IC truck - or custom make one. Plus whatever you use to mount the thing.
I will buy one off eBay and probably custom install myself and I plan to do it for under $350 or so.

Now- to change the subject a little bit - for those running the NV4500 or 5600 in the old fords - what did you do about the hydraulic clutch? Convert it? What parts will I need to put an NV4500 or 56oo behind my 91 6bt in my 74 ford (the ford is already manual)

Lets keep this thread going - seems to be a LOT of good info here

 

My plan for the clutch is to use the Dodge pedals and m/c. It'll keep the pedal ratio the same. Same goes with the brakes. Of course I'm putting my cab onto the Dodge frame so the brakes will match the m/c.
So far so good with the cab mounts. I'm trying to use the Ford mounts on the cab and making my own to fit it to the Dodge frame. It's a little tall for me but it'll save me from having to lift it later.

 

The NV4500 would be muuuuch easier if my donor truck came with one. Unfortunately the truck I got is a Gen 1 (pre NV4500) and an auto.
Anybody else added an NV4500 behind a Gen 1 cummins - in a Ford?

As for your cab mounts - that's the way I'd do it. I've seen one of our crews on a 2004 dodge frame and the guy used the dodge cab mounts off the dodge frame (I have pics in another thread if you want to see). It didn't really fit my tastes. The guy had to cut the bed REALLY short, and stretch the hood & fenders. The front of the truck turned out to be about as long as the bed - it was odd. I will give him credit with some NICE body work in doing the stretch and cut, but overall I think your way is a better choice.