what do you mean hurting the soil?? the soil is more fertile now than it ever has been. we are getting roughly 200 plus bushels an acre of corn. enough to feed this country many times over. why not put that to good use through legislation and make it do something for us. rather than selling it all the china or japan. and depending on them for all of our petroleum needs. the united states would run out of oil quicker than you could get that oil company monkey off your back. and driling like they are doing underneath the cities in texas is horrible and might cause future damage to that cities structure all for natural gas, oil. i would rather have them not destroy alaska to find some oil and use corn instead. not only corn can be used but alot of other plants to such as soybeans. i've seen people drink the water emissions out of the tailpipes of there trucks and cars that run biodiesel that is how confident they are that it is clean and safe. in most cars ethanol doesn't even affect the gas mpg enough to notice. its been said before that if the farmer does well the economy isn't far behind. such as the drop in hog prices in the early 90's that hurt alot of farmers. soon enough the overall economy dropped. its a chain effect. so if you want to help the economy its been said that not to help big business like exon to have record profits for the next ten years. support your countrmen. not a few individuals who see the profit from this.
just my opinion though lol

 

they aren't building more refinerys because they know its a dead product. they aren't going in invest that kind of money into something when it might not get used very the length of the building like many of these older ones have. i prefer when something happens over seas that our oil prices not jump up to about 5 dollars a gallon in some places. we depend to much on them. and instead of delaying the problem buy using american oil which would run out in 5-10 years. we could be using ethanol and biodiesel. these products aren't intended to take over the market. these are to help get away from traditional fuels and start turning in another direction. there is no way that we could produce enough ethanol to supply the entire united states. i believe ethanol is just a stepping stone to bigger and better things. such as redesigning the hydroelectric cars to make them affordable and etc. if you want to use american oil why not just use it and make it last longer by only using it in the making on e85 gas?? that would make it last alot longer and then your need for foreign oil is gone along with your so called raise in jobs for refinerys.

 

This debate will obviously never end; but if you read some of the stats in some of the other threads, you'd realize 2 things. The main reason refineries aren't being built is because of the EPA regulations and the cost of refining, it isn't worth the cost of building more. 2nd; the amount of land being used just to produce corn in our country is between 4-5% of our total land mass. Yes, ethanol only offets our oil demand by less than 1%. But even if the current production of ethanol supplied 5% of our requirements, that would mean that approximately 100% of our land mass would be needed to grow the produce needed to make ethanol a replacement. Now, take out all the places where you can't plant produce for ethanol such as our deserts, mountains, etc... Also through in the land required for people to live. So, tell me, where would we get all the land needed? Plus, the lot of the farm land that is so called fertile, is artificially made fertile.

Then, of course, you have to consider how much of the farm land is irrigated. We currently have a major water issue. Where is all this water suppose to come from? I guess we could desalinate ocean water and pump it in. No, it's just not worth the damage. The only drawback with oil is the need to promote global economic and political stability. The majority of our imported oil comes from Canada and Mexico. But some, as well as many other countries imports, come from countries like the middle east, venezuela, etc.... Many of these countries make oil the major portion of their GDP. They don't have anything else. You take away a country's main or only source of income, and you create a very volatile international situation. Then again, most Americans have no idea of global economics. Nor do they want to understand. They think will can live in our country totally self sufficient and not worry about the rest of the world. If we tried to be as self sufficient as we were in the early 1900's, with today's global requirements, you wouldn't be able to afford to live anywhere near your current standard of living.

See, people don't understand taxes and government spending either. If the government didn't subsidize the ethanol industry $0.51 a gallon, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Ethanol would cost too much and you wouldn't be buying it. Because of overhead in government spending, that $0.51 a gallon is probably closer to $0.75 a gallon in direct American worker's taxes. But, because you sympathize with the farmers, you don't care that we are being taxed for this subsidy. The government is very good at taking and spending your money. By using taxes, you are eager to accept it. You think you are paying less for gasoline with ethanol when in fact you are paying more per gallon than if it was just regular gasoline. You just don't realize it because you write taxes off and don't consider it part of your income. I bet if we didn't get taxed anything and you had to pay a consumption tax on EVERYTHING you bought, you would be much more critical of the cost. Later.... Mike....

 

Translation: they got more fertilizer in than it has ever been.

Actually, seling it as a food or feed may be a better use. If you can buy more crude for that money than the ethanol you can make from it, it's better to sell it.

There's no way corn based ethanol can ever supply more than a few percentage point of our fuel need.

Whaaat?!?

Annyhow, that's a bit hard to believe. Do you have a proof of that?

In any case, back to C2H5OH, I consider the ethanol subsidy a form of corporate welfare.

And Here's a short article on farm subsidies -- in Manhattan!!
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjA0MzEzZWU3MGM1ZjZmZTAxNjg0ZTQyNTcyMWU4ZjQ=

 

Here is a great link from a USDA economist on the alternative fuels subject. (very long)
http://www.usda.gov/oce/newsroom/cha...anol5-8-07.doc

 

The whole subsidy thing is being blown out of porportion on this thread. For years farmers have been getting government subsidies for not planting due to a suprlus of grain. Either way your tax dollars are going to subsides one way or another. Id rather my tax dollars go to subsidise someone to work more not less.
As for the irrigation issue, I dont know, maybe the reason why some areas have water issues is because they are trying to grow something where it doesnt belong. Around here there isnt a whole lot of need for irrigation because the environment supports farming well. Meaning we get enough rain.
On a side note, I dont know if anyone else has heard but a company called Hyperion Resources is looking at building a brand new refinery in South Dakota. The first one to be built in the country in over 30 years. I dont think its set in stone yet since they are also looking at other sites. If they do chose the South Dakota site then its still going to be 10 years before its up and running.
Until someone developes dilithium crystals to generate the needed 1.2 gigawats of energy for our flux capacitors l believe ethanol is a viable alternative to suppliment the demand for energy.

 

Its getting very deep in here.