AMEN,, you added what I left out. If it cost more BTU to product a BTU than every time you make a BTU you lose. If we cut back on foreign oil the price will be reduced using basic Economics.

So I will let this topic rest. Even if OUR GOV. in our state has made it mandentory to use 15% ethanol. after the STATE builds an funds an Ethanol plant. I guess we will just have to Eat it and Like it because our GOV. clearly knows better than anyone else. After all she did a Great JOB leading the state rebuilding after Katrina.

 

I also find it a little strange that except for Exxon/Mobile, you don't hear too much debate from the oil companies on this topic. I mean, if the "Big Oil" companies want to make money, because they are the greedy *******s that everyone says they are, then you would think that they would be fighting congress and others on the use of ethanol. Whether the oil came from Saudi Arabia or Alaska, if Ethanol was such a great thing, it would require less Oil/Gasoline usage.

So, if the "Big Oil" companies aren't verbal about this, and they have just about as much power as most of congress, then it must mean that they aren't that concerned. Which sort of makes sense, At E10 10% ethanol, it seems that many people show about a 10% decrease in MPG. If so, and the person has to buy MORE of the E10 gasoline in order to drive the same distance, then the oil companies are selling the same amount of gasoline. The price of E10 and non-ethanol is the same or close enough to the same. So that means the extra money is going to the ethanol providers like Archard Daniels Midland.

Most people who have truly studied ethanol agree that E10 ethanol gets less mileage than non-ethanol gasoline. Where or not it 10% is different for each car. For my 3 vehicles, it was about 10%. So for me, it costs more to use E10. Plus, we wind up putting the same amount of polutants because we are using roughly the same amount of gasoline. Now however, we are adding more and different contaminants because of burning the ethanol.

Again, there must be some good reasons you don't see a massive oil company lobbying going on. We'd have to hear about it. Thinks to think about. Later... Mike....

 

Apparently, at least a few of us actually do get it...

 

I've been burning E85 in my 03 F150 for 3 years now. 2 trips to Branson Mo. from Northern Indiana pulling a 24ft travel trailer with a V6 4.2 with cruise control on most of the way. I get 9mpg towing that fully loaded rig filled with a wife and 3 kids and a weeks worth of firewood, water ect... Non towing, I get 16 mpg with E85 vs. 20mpg with gas. Of course I did a few mods-K&N intake, Thrush exhaust, Diablo 3 position Sport chip burned for 87, 93octane, and E85 I got through Motorhaven. with a 5-speed and 3:55 rearend, I can burn rubber like my V8 buds. A lot of us who are mechanics are converting due to increased power and cleaner running engines. I have about 78,000 miles, with the last 36,000 miles all running E85 with no problems. I go to E85fuel.com and plot out fuel stations on our trip routes. In 1 year, hundreds of stations have popped up and are readily available. E85 doesn't come from just corn-sugar beets and cane in the south(like fuel independant Brazil)and new plants are being built to utilize biowaste and cellulose. The ethanol plants that utilize corn don't only get ethanol, but you also get corn oil-for frying or bio-diesel, and the leftover mash is used for cattle feed-nothing to waste. Beef prices haven't risen that much here in Indiana, and milk has gone up due to increased fuel prices. The U.S. farmers are happy, and the OPEC jerks are mad and always trying to get someone to say that E85 is bad. Get the facts, talk to a farmer, tour an ethanol plant, search the web for all the new production teqniques and you'll see everything in a different light.

 

P.S. I burn 50/50 blend E85/gas in my 97 escort and get 30 mpg instead of 33 mpg with gas-10% difference. Not bad. Ethanol-not just for drinking anymore!!!

 

White Shadow, you post singing the praises of E85 yet readilly admit that your truck loses 20% of it's range when using it. IDK. If it was me I'd be looking for a way to avoid using that crap at all costs.

BTW, I can drink ethanol a LOT better than I can stomach gasoline. So I'll keep the ethanol in my bar and the gasoline in my tank, thankyou.

 

The real question is how is the E85 treating the orings, seals and fuel lines on older cars.

 

Like a wookie in heat?

 

christcorp wrote what I was going to.. a gallon of straight ethanol contains 30% less total energy than a gallon of straight gas. Of course you're not running straight ethanol so the decrease is less, but still there.

* * *

What gets me is this, and it hasn't been mentioned on this thread.. This run on corn is affecting corn prices overall. And if anyone checks the ingredient panels on their everyday foods, you'd be surprised how deeply corn is involved in what we eat. What our families eat. And to take it a step further, corn is even deeply involved where it's not a direct ingredient as in animal feeds. The more corn we divert to fuel, and the more land farmers switch to grow corn instead of other food crops (to cash in of course: Who wouldn't??) the more expensive it's going to be to feed ourselves and our families.. So even the optimistic savings of 90 cents a gallon for some is a poor trade off in my opinion. ---(Milk is already up $1.50 a gallon here, with a good chunk of that attributed to feed prices) ---My family is more important.

Do we need to kick the oil habit?? Absolutely! But ethanol from corn is not the best answer. They are looking into ways to get it from things like switchgrass and other plants but for now this corn price run is an economic boom to some at the expense of the rest.... Kinda like the oil business.

 

Forgot to tell you-gas in North Indiana-$2.88-E85$2.38-Extra power, cleaner engines, less emmissions, pissing off the Arabs-PRICELESS.

 

Cool Pic,, just had to save it!

 

Hate to tell you this (naw, really I don't ) but with your figures, ethanol does NOT give you more power. You can put it on a dyno to check, but you're gettin much less power than you would with gasoline.

Let's look at the numbers. For a 1000 mile trip, using ethanol you'll burn 62.5 gallons and it'll cost you $148.75. The same trip using gasoline will use 50 gallons and cost you $144.00. So for the privelidge of using the ethanol you get to pay an extra $4.75.
Enjoy.

 

Thanks. Enjoy it.

To put it in context, someone on another board created it to describe the ravages of explosive diarreah They referr to the gurgling noise in the belly after a meal like Taco Bell as 'the Wookie'.

 

Since the price of corn has gone up we blame it all on the ethanol production blah blah blah. For years there has been a surplus of corn and other crops and the government has even paid farmers NOT to plant their crops. We now have a new market for our crops and people in this country are profiting. The money is spent here and stays here. The excess waste from ethanol production feeds cows so we arent taking food from them but changing the process of how it gets there. After the cows process the corn their waste is used to help power the ethanol production. Cows are an excellent source of methane which is burned to generate electricity for the ethanol plants. You cant blame ethanol for the price of EVERYTHING going up. The cost of gasoline has skyrocketed in the last few years, housing costs have gone up, food is more expensive, minimum wage is going up etc... Everything is getting more expensive no matter how you look at it.

 

Danged Nabbit and all this time I thought prices were going up because of the "incorrect address on the star gate" Beam me up to lower prices