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The CVT was invented a long time ago. The reason it wasn't applied it because it would not hold up with higher output engines. And by higher I probable mean anything over 50 hp
I think the original was invented by DAF / van doorne transmission and applied in the 70's in tiny cars. They broke down frequently.
Only more recently have they been able to use them in higher output applications (better materials) but I am not sure where they stand when it comes to a big turbo diesel.
I came across this thread after seeing this new company Wrightspeed. They have 250HP motors on each wheel No linkage needed. 2 speed gear reduction system that uses gas diesel or propane turbine engine.
I would love to put the Circuit The Circuit | Wrightspeed
Into my excursion. 1,000 FTLBS of torque and 1,000 hp Should be able to tow over 30,000 lbs without a problem.
I attended a class not long ago for first responders - how to deal with electric and hybrid vehicles when responding to accidents, where to cut, what to look for by means of high voltage wiring, etc.
In the class was an expert who discussed hybrid technology in full size and industrial trucks. He works as a consultant with major auto makers, getting info on what first responders need to know about new vehicles.
His analogy matched what was said above...the 'mini locomotive' concept (a small diesel or turbine engine powering a generator that runs electric motors at the wheels).
When you get into the needs of trucks our size, a battery hybrid doesn't make much sense, as you get into diminishing returns regarding battery weight. Sure, battery technology will improve, but with the fuel economy possibilities coming to market in the not too distant future, companies will be able to make a diesel-to-electric or turbine-to-electric truck for far less than a conventional battery hybrid.
He's talking about a 6 cylinder diesel that can put out over 1000hp through electric motors at the wheels, I can't remember the torque but it was crazy:
Forgive my resurrection of this thread. It seems like the best one to keep going. Having recently picked up an EV, and seeing some of the conversions folks are doing with older vehicles, I am getting somewhat interested in doing an Excursion EV conversion. EV motor torque is flat out insane and with battery technologies getting better by the week, I think we're hitting an inflection point where feasibility is there. I'm sure it won't be long before we see an X chassis sporting 3 battery packs that power multiple motors (not unlike what is expected from Tesla's cybertruck). Heck, Ford is already in the game. Hard not to imagine a clear path.
I have actually researched this extensively, and the best way i found to do this is actually pretty easy.
Bollinger motors makes something called the Chass-E, its a heavy truck frame, batteries, motors, drivetrain, everything, and by some magic, it is only 1 inch off of the Excursions Wheelbase. Which is easily tweaked to make it match up.
You could buy one of those from Bollinger, and then do the following
Take an excursion, preferably one with a blown motor, or trans, i wouldn't use one that runs good because why waste a good excursion.
Lift the body off the frame and set it asside.
Remove the axles, springs, and all drivetrain components from the frame down to just the body mounts, and frame itself.
Set the frame on top of the Bollinger frame, and line it up properly, and weld them together from front to back once properly aligned, (this makes putting the body on easy, but is also needed otherwise the body would sit too low on the bollinger frame)
Put the body back onto the new frame assembly.
Install the bollinger gauge cluster, steering wheel, pedals, and ignition into the excursion body, and do the basics of reconnecting the power windows, and other interior accessories to the bollingers electrical system which is pretty basic.
If you have a lift, could probably have it done in a week or two, ready to drive away.
My idea was then to take the now empty engine bay, and install a diesel generator onboard to make the vehicle a hybrid, and able to charge on the move.
There is another company that is trying to make electric rear axle assemblies that can be swapped into standard trucks, but they have not gotten off the drawing board yet...
I would never do any of that to my Dauntless Excursion, however this is something i have been passively looking into and researching as an idea to do for a second excursion if the money became an option, Grab a Chass-E, and find an Excursion with crazy miles on it, or with a blown drive train, and give it a new life on top of the Bollinger Chass-E.
The Electric one would be for show off, short range running around, a toy, and Dauntless would be the cross country, long range, gas powered metal monster it already is.
is it a coincidence that this thread pops back up the same week that my V10 seized?
I think not.
I've also fantasized about this a lot - as far as weight, you're looking at an entire Tesla 100 kWh pack in exchange for the engine/trans/xfer case. Slap some f350 springs and you can drop another whole 100kWh without altering the dynamics of the truck and also not breaking the GVWR (200kWh of battery would definitely leave you with low margin for cargo weight on the legal limit.. the practical limits are a good bit higher)
The integrated motor axle that @MasterX mentioned is actually pretty close to production. I think Dana is also venturing into EV axle motors.
You won't scrape togeather a electrical setup tho for anything close to what it will cost to drop in a V10 tho....
The Bollinger idea was multi-faceted because it actually knocks out a ton of birds with 1 stone.
Doing the install in the manner i mentioned as putting the Excursion frame on top of the Bollinger frame fixes 2 problems.
1. The Bollinger frame alone with the Ex Body the wheels would overlap the fenders.
2. Putting the Ex frame on top, yields at least a 3 inch effective lift, more if you space it upwards a little when you weld the frames together.
It also solves these non-frame related problems.
1. Battery packs included, and mounting them is done.
2. High Voltage wiring is already done for you.
3. Controller is included
4. Fully Functional Gauge cluster included.
5. Power steering included with full function.
6. Power Braking works out of the box.
7. No need to adapt axles, drivetrain, driveshafts, etc.
8. No need for the Ford ECU, Cluster, SJB, or GEM, they can all be bypassed and removed.
9. All your electric drive train parts are off the shelf Bollinger parts, so replacement parts, are literally a phone call away.
also @96firephoenix With the Bollinger setup, you are dropping not only the engine, trans, xfer, and driveshafts, you are also dropping the axles, and all the suspension, in exchange for a brand new suspension and axles in the bollinger.
And the Bollinger has a Dually option, so if you really want to pile on batteries, or towing capacity, or both, its that easy.
You won't scrape togeather a electrical setup tho for anything close to what it will cost to drop in a V10 tho....
The Bollinger idea was multi-faceted because it actually knocks out a ton of birds with 1 stone.
Doing the install in the manner i mentioned as putting the Excursion frame on top of the Bollinger frame fixes 2 problems.
1. The Bollinger frame alone with the Ex Body the wheels would overlap the fenders.
2. Putting the Ex frame on top, yields at least a 3 inch effective lift, more if you space it upwards a little when you weld the frames together.
It also solves these non-frame related problems.
1. Battery packs included, and mounting them is done.
2. High Voltage wiring is already done for you.
3. Controller is included
4. Fully Functional Gauge cluster included.
5. Power steering included with full function.
6. Power Braking works out of the box.
7. No need to adapt axles, drivetrain, driveshafts, etc.
8. No need for the Ford ECU, Cluster, SJB, or GEM, they can all be bypassed and removed.
9. All your electric drive train parts are off the shelf Bollinger parts, so replacement parts, are literally a phone call away.
also @96firephoenix With the Bollinger setup, you are dropping not only the engine, trans, xfer, and driveshafts, you are also dropping the axles, and all the suspension, in exchange for a brand new suspension and axles in the bollinger.
And the Bollinger has a Dually option, so if you really want to pile on batteries, or towing capacity, or both, its that easy.
Oh, I know i'm going to just be dropping in a replacement V10 for now.
But I think my long-term goal will be electrification or hybridization of the excursion. I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled for prices on wrecked Tundra hybrids here in the next couple years as well. Doing essentially a body swap on the Toyota would get me stuff like adaptive cruise and lane keep pretty readily. I just would have to commit several kinds of sacrilege.
That's a really good list of considerations for an EV chassis tho.
Another EV Chassis to potentially consider is the Atlis XP.
I'm an electrical engineer in the off highway equipment industry with a few electrified vehicles with my name all over them out in the wild. It's one of the weirdest topics for me because to make an actual automobile electrified AND really fulfill people's expectations of what a car (or truck) should do, is nearly impossible. It's not too hard to do for small equipment though which is why those products I mentioned are commercially successful.
I've crunched the numbers several times to see how I could add an electric boost/kinetic energy recovery system to my Excursion. The powertrain stuff is the cheap part, only costing many several thousand dollars (before you fabricate anything to mount up to anything else). The batteries to do what I'd want to do would cost well into the 5 digits before I even bought a charger. Plus I'd have to develop my own battery management system so the battery doesn't quite literally erupt and take the whole truck down with it. That's a very complex system that multi billion dollar companies are slaving away 24/7 to perfect to this day. I was hoping I could add a light boost to my truck so I could accelerate it to 40 or 45mph on pure electric at an acceleration around 80% of what I'd normally use. Figure it would be helpful in town where I'm not racing stop light to stop light. But the power demands are huge and the battery also has to be huge to avoid overheating in normal use. It's far too complicated to design an actively cooled battery in the garage. In the end it was a novelty but the numbers just don't add up at the end of the page.
I did the same 2 or 3 times to design a pure EV powertrain for a 24 Hours of Lemons racecar. The 24hr is offering a $50k cash prize if you can take an overall win at any event with a pure EV. The numbers just won't add up at the end because even modern Li ion batteries have such poor energy density and power capabilities. Even if we had a tractor trailer deliver a huge diesel generator and a very powerful charger that doesn't exist that could charge a huge battery in a 2 or 3 hour period, the battery has to be so huge it literally doesn't fit in any car. My goal was to build something that could in theory keep up with our 1990 1.6L miata racecar with about 90whp and weighs about 2500lbs if memory serves. Even if the car with driver and battery only weighed 1500lbs (impossible) it still required a battery that weighed more than the car and no way you're fitting a battery that size regardless of what you start with. Fun exercise for me but nobody is winning that $50k prize and after trying several times I can see why nobody has brought any attempts.
11-23-2012, 07:57 PM
