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Old 12-04-2006, 09:38 AM
Hamberger Hamberger is offline
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BioDiesel Lessons Learned

Well here is a hard lesson learned with Biodiesel.

I have been running B40 on both my trucks and knew that B40 would be a bit dicy to run if the temperature dropped too much. Since "usually" it stays around the 32F mark in my neck of the woods I thought I would be ok running B40 all winter.

Unfortunately we had one of those 1 in 20 year artic outflows for the past week and temperature dropped to below 20F for a day or so. Bad news if you run B40.

I was lucky to fill up the 93' on both tanks with regular diesel as the tanks were pretty low just before the temperature dropped. Could only top up the 91'. I also added some Antigel to the tanks but it just got to cold out to keep the B40 from freezing.

Too make a long story short, the 91' did freeze up and when I applied the throttle to start it after sitting for 3 days in the cold it I snapped the advance piston arm on the IP as the plunger would not go in as it was frozen. The fuel filter also had some frozen fuel in it. I took the IP out yesterday. I probably will just replace it.

Lesson learned: B40 + Cold Temperatures = IP damage.



Seb......
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:56 AM
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Here in Michigan my fuel supplier won't sell over B5 during the winter months. Because of possible problems. I have B20 in my 93 and it ran great in 15 degree weather. Maybe I was just lucky....
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:19 PM
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I knew I was pushing it with B40.

They ran a pilot test on B40 last year when it was not that cold of a year and from that figured that selling B40 all year round would be ok in my area of BC which is near the coast.

I don't think anybody counted on it ever getting below 20F around here.

Oh well I have been looking for an excuse to replace the IP on the 91' anyways; not because it needed it but rather because I don't know the history on it when I bought it in Nov. 05'. The nice thing on my 93' is that I know everything that has ever been done on it as I bought in new in 93'.


Live and learn I say,,,,


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Old 12-04-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamberger
I knew I was pushing it with B40.

They ran a pilot test on B40 last year when it was not that cold of a year and from that figured that selling B40 all year round would be ok in my area of BC which is near the coast.

I don't think anybody counted on it ever getting below 20F around here.

Oh well I have been looking for an excuse to replace the IP on the 91' anyways; not because it needed it but rather because I don't know the history on it when I bought it in Nov. 05'. The nice thing on my 93' is that I know everything that has ever been done on it as I bought in new in 93'.


Live and learn I say,,,,


Seb....
I'll bet if you check with your supplier it's Soy based biodiesel. Canola based bio has a lower gel point than Soy. The biodiesel I make and use is about 80 percent canola, and has a gel point of 28-30 deg at B-100. The last 3 winters I've used B-80 down to +10 with no problems.


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Old 12-05-2006, 08:46 AM
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Adding lets say 5 Gal. or so of kerosene to a 30 gal fill up of B40, along with your regular anti-gell additive. Would that help ???
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Gun-Driver
Adding lets say 5 Gal. or so of kerosene to a 30 gal fill up of B40, along with your regular anti-gell additive. Would that help ???
The B40 I buy is already blended heavyly with No. 1 Diesel Fuel to try and suppress the cold flow point. I have been using the Howe Antigel and it definetly helps lower the cold flow point. Unfortunately it just got a little colder than normal which caused the treated B40 to literally freeze. So when I applied the throttle it snapped the linkage for the timing advance piston as the piston would not move as I depressed the throttle.

I think a B40 blend (using Soybean Oil) is just too high a blend for the colder climates where you approach 20 to 25 F. It is ok for ambient conditions greater than 25 F but even then you will need to keep up with some antigel and make sure you use No. 1 Diesel as your blend stock.


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Old 12-05-2006, 09:17 AM
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If you want to affect Gellation of BD and are limited in the amount you can add, you should add #1 diesel because it has an anti gell additives in it. Kerosene is one of the components in Diesel, because, Petro Diesel is actually a mix of several light oils ranging from 10 to 15 carbons in lengthm (approximately).

Kerosene is also a mix of light oils ranging from 12 to 15 carbons in length (also approximate). Adding Kerosene to diesel will have no affect on gellation properties but since kerosene to treated very aggresively to remove sulfer you will reduce the lubricity of the diesel. Adding Kerosene to BD will have the same effect as adding #2 diesel. The lubricity will be moot because BD has great lubrication properties

An even better solution for anti gel in BD would be the stuff Fab was checking out a little while ago. Perhaps we can get him to give us the name again.
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:40 AM
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It's called Techron B-100. After talking with the engineers there, I realize my testing methods were flawed. I'm building a new test chamber in the next 10 days or so, and will re-test. That being said I still got a 15 deg reduction in gel point. They tell me that I can expect a 30 deg drop in gel temps with soy B-100

Will keep everyone posted.


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Old 12-05-2006, 10:15 AM
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If anybody wants to try additives there definetely is no shortage of available products.

Just check out the following epa website which lists various fuel additives. There is enough to make your head spin:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/a...e/web-addt.htm
"Techron" is currently a brandname gasoline additive marketed by Chevron. It would take a bit of testing to see if "Techron" would have any cold flow property benefits with Soybean based Biodiesel.

One of the other problems I have not mentioned above is that once I had melted the frozen B40 in my fuel filter it left a small amout of brown residue in the funnel I used to let it melt into a clear glass bottle. It looks like a greasy margarine that won't melt even at 70F. You can get it to melt by squishing it between you fingers. I am not sure if this will re-absorb into the fuel or plug the fuel filter once I got my IP re-installed.

Also the frozen fuel I poured out of the fuel filter has separated into two distinct layers now, a clear layer at the bottom and a brown, cloudy layer on top. You can shake it up and it all turns cloudy and entrains air easyly. This does not look good.


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Old 12-05-2006, 11:24 AM
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I'm wondering if you have got the glycerin separation from the biodiesel. Wondering if you had a bad or semi bad batch which all the glycerin wasn't removed. Anyone else think this???
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:07 PM
Hamberger Hamberger is offline
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Can't be just glycerin.

The two phase mix is about 50/50 in volume. The brown cloudy stuff floats on top of the clear stuff. There is a clear line between them and the two liquids are definetely of different specific gravity. The cloudy stuff seems to also have quite a bit more entrained air bubbles.

I will check my bottle again tonight. I gave it a good shake to see if it will mix and it does not seem to want to mix and starts to separate again right away.



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Old 12-05-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamberger
One of the other problems I have not mentioned above is that once I had melted the frozen B40 in my fuel filter it left a small amout of brown residue in the funnel I used to let it melt into a clear glass bottle. It looks like a greasy margarine that won't melt even at 70F. You can get it to melt by squishing it between you fingers. I am not sure if this will re-absorb into the fuel or plug the fuel filter once I got my IP re-installed.
Seb....
Sounds like residual glycerine to me. Probably some other contaminants also.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamberger
"Techron" is currently a brandname gasoline additive marketed by Chevron. It would take a bit of testing to see if "Techron" would have any cold flow property benefits with Soybean based Biodiesel.




Seb....
Slip of the keys... Should of read: Technol B-100, Sorry!


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Old 12-05-2006, 09:02 PM
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Boy you had me worried it was down in the high teens last night. Last week I filled my truck and added about 10gal of bio (B-100) to top off. The last two mornings it had been in the low twentys didn't plug in and no problems started right up and ran normal. But after hearing that story, I went out this morning and drained my fuel filter. It was a little cloudy but not real bad, I left my sample out on the porch for the day and it's currently 19* and no real change. I'll check it in the morning let you know if theres any change.

Last edited by Gun-Driver; 12-05-2006 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:43 PM
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How was it??
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:43 PM
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