This same Chart was currently reissued by FMC and still does not recommend 5W-40 for ambient Temps above 30F. There has been plenty of data on the 6.0. The chart is used for All ambient temps, or did you miss that point?

 

maybe some peeps know more than ford.


http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...ry=Motor%20Oil


"Motorcraft® SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Diesel Motor Oil is recommended for use in Powerstroke® diesel engines over a wide temperature range, from -20°F (-29°C) to over 100°F (38°C)."

 

LOL, I just saw the same thing over on BITOG. Of course that isn't an official Ford web page, and it doesn't say "all Powerstroke diesel engines" either. I tried to find it on Motorcraft's site to get more info but couldn't.

I did notice that the Ford specification number for that oil is WSS-M2C171-E. The 6.0L engines require oil that meets Ford specification WSS-M2C171-D. Are Ford's spec numbers backward compatible like the API specs? If so, then it should be "officially" OK to use this particular oil (if you could find it, that is).

 

im going out on a limb and saying this is endorsed for all powerstrokes that use CI-4+.

 

Well the marketing department at Motorcraft parts got most of the information in the paragraph they just did some creative editing and screwed up the delivery

Yes CJ-4 oil is backwards compatible for all diesel engines, and yes per FMC 5W-40 can be used in the 6.4 PSD for temps above 30F. The difference here is that FMC still does Not recommend 5W-40 in the 6.0 for warm temps. The reason for this is the injector system.

The 6.4 uses Piezo electric injectors instead of the HEUI injectors in the 6.0. The 6.4 has a longer drain interval on the engine oil as well.

 

so just what powerstroke that does not have HEUI injection and uses CI-4+ plus oils are they endorsing this for?

 

There is no logical reason why the injectors would be the reason they would dissapproved of this - I'd like to see some data supporting it. If anything else, its the other parts of the engine that would require the heavy oil - bearings, etc.... At full operating temperature the injectors cannot differentiate between external temps of 10F or 90F. Matter of fact, many dealers have recommended the lighter 10W-30 for the sake of better injector performance.

Mark

 

blackhat 620
Thanks for posting this information, I have looked for the tsb but couldn't find it again. As you say, the 5W50 synthetic is recommended for the 6.4 at higher ambient temps. This is puzzling but there has to be a reason for the different recommendations for the two engines.

 

It's not the injectors themselves, it's the high pressure oil pump that drives the HEUI injectors. The HPOP is the main reason oil shears so bad in the 6.0L. The 6.4L does not have one.

 

The Motorcraft parts marketing department screwed up the add copy for their sales brochure. The Engineering department for the engine has never endorsed 5W-40 for above 30F in the 6.0.

 

Really!!! The HEUI injector system in the 6.0 uses un-filtered engine oil at extremely high pressure to fire the injectors. The HPOP is extremely hard on engine oil and shears it down very rapidly, to the point the oil must be changed. In fact running the 6.0 past 5k on any engine oil is risky. The 10W-30 oil recomendation was early on in the 03 model year and after poor performance with this oil except in cold climates FMC backed away from recommending 10W-30 for towing or temps above 90F.

In fact do to the higher HEUI oil pressures in the 6.0, than the 7.3 the 7.3 with its HEUI system is easier on engine oil.

If you want to read the UOA reports on oil in the 6.0 go to the BITOG website there are numerous UOA posts for the 6.0 there.

The 6.4 uses Piezo Electric injectors that are fired electrically, and the engine oil is only used to lubricate and cool the engine. The 6.4 can go up to 10k between oil changes per FMC.

 

too many peeps taking everything writen by FMC as scripture. the real screw up as you like to call it is not endorsing the 5W-40 in the 6.0 full spectrum. the HEUI sytem actually likes thinner oil as it runs better with warm oil as opposed to cold oil. the only possible reason for turning it down is the issue that MD brought up about scuffing(i would need scientific proof to fully embrace this). seeing the 6.4 uses basically the same shortblock as the 6.0 and they endorse it for use in the 6.4 i dont see how this could be a problem.


as for the 6.0 shearing 5W-40 more than the dino and it being bad for HEUI sytem, well you can throw that out the window with the rest of your theories. the most shear stable oils in the 6.0 are all 5W-40's(redline, delvac1, schaffers). in fact many dealers are installing 5W-40's for the 6.0's year round.

i remember seeing an updated chart someone posted by international that applied to the VT365's all well as other international engines and it speced 5W-40 as full spectrum. you do the math.

im done with this.


peace!

 

Guess I'll whip the dead horse a few times here.

I don't know if the scuffing at startup is one of the factors affecting Ford's oil spec for 5W-40 in the 6.0. I'm guessing it is, but I can't give you any scientific proof. Even if I could get it from one of the 6.0L engine designers, it would probably involve complex physics, chemistry and mathematical equations. The propeller on my beanie doesn't turn that fast.

The HEUI liking thinner oil is only one factor the engineers would have considered when choosing oils for the 6.0. But with thinner oil, the bearings, piston skirts, rings, and cylinder walls suffer from less lube film thickness when the oil is thinner. This is true regardless of whether or not an oil has sheared down. Even if a 15W sheared all the way down to 15W-15, a 5W will continue to gravity drain after the sheared down 15W has stopped flowing.

It's true that RL, Delvac1, and Schaeffer's 9000 have shown good shear resistance in some 6.0s, but in other 6.0s even the Schaeffer's sheared down badly. You would think if these oils held up in some 6.0s they'd hold up in all of them, but that apparently is not the case. I don't know why, but the old analogy about these engines being like snowflakes seems to apply to the way they perform with a given oil, too. Unfortunately, the RL and Schaeffer's 9000 are not API certified yet, so if you still have warranty left, better hope you don't have an oil related-failure if you use one of these.

As far as the 6.0 and the 6.4 having the same block design, oil doesn't lube blocks. The 6.4 uses different bearings than the 6.0 and they are oriented differently to the oil supply holes. I have no idea whether this is one of the factors for specifying 5W-40 full spectrum in the 6.4, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

Personally, I hope Ford does eventually spec 5W-40 full spectrum in the 6.0. It would be great to run an all-season oil in my engine year-round without risking my warranty.

 

All true (except the unfiltered oil part) and known, but I don't see the logical connection - techically, why is 5W-40 bad for the injectors? Its well understood that the oil shears down due to th HPOP, but that doesn't correlate to being a problem for the injectors. If nothing else, the arguement is that "x" oils shear too low due to the HPOP, and thus are too thin for the engine itself. In this perspective, the 6.0 would be similar to the 6.4 with respect to viscosity requirements. I did look for UOA's at bitog, but the only thing negative I saw was one indicating the oil was shearing down. I did not find anything indicating this was causing abonormal wear on the engine. If you've got those, it would be interesting to read.

I do believe that one reason Ford did not endorse the 5W-40 fully in the past is because they did not have a product to sell. Their new 5W-40 indicates its fully backwards compatable, so I'm willing to bet they'll start recommending it once they get around to updating their info.

Mark

 

Took your advise Mark, and went with the Rotella 5w-40 syn. I have ran it before and liked it! Ill see how it does for me this winter. The oil I just changed out was Motorcraft 10w-30. I saved some of it and I think I will get a kit and send it off to get a report on it (anyone with info on how to do that please chime in here). I go 6-7K between changes, and maybe when I change out the syn, Ill do another report on that oil as well.

With so many people with different opinions on oils, hard for me to say what most of you endorse here.