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  #1  
Old 06-12-2006, 08:29 PM
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Straight WVO vs. Diesel -- Cheaper???

I have heard of some people running straigt wvo in diesel vehicles, but couldnt find much info on what would be needed to do that.

I was grocery shopping the other day and saw 1gallon of wvo for $2.49. I talked to a friend that worked there and he said they pay $2gallon on the wholesale= $500 a pallet 250gallons. That is cheaper than diesel at the pump.

What do you guys think?
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:10 PM
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WVO is waste vegetable oil. Typically it is free for the asking from resturants and such. Much cheaper than diesel.

Virgin oil by the pallet, while still cheaper than diesel, probably wuldn't be worth it considering the time it would take to offset the cost of the conversion kit.

The sponsor of this forum, Lesk WVO, would be the one's to talk to about it.
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:47 PM
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well, i was looking at wesson vegetable oil (wvo), LOL.
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:54 PM
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haha...gotcha

Seems like there's something else about new oil that makes it harder to run than the used stuff, but I can't remember what.

One of the guys in the know will be along to straighten us out.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:53 PM
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Totally into this concept and am looking for a suitable vehicle to do this setup.

Here's what I've garnered;

WVO is basically any garbage oil you can find.......you have to install a separate fuel tank with a dedicated heater. the system will also have it's own filtration.

The vehicle will be started the normal way on regular dino diesel, after the WVO is heated up to it's required viscosity you can switch to the alternate fuel. You MUST also shut your vehicle down on regular diesel so as to clear the lines.


Running virgin oil (like the Wesson) can be run the same way........but why???

Bio-diesel refineries take that virgin oil and add chemical (lye and some other stuff) so as it can be run STRAIGHT in the vehicle's stock tank........but that's not WASTE VO.


I'm real excited about picking up a used Mercedes or VW and trying the WVO....already have a couple resturants that'll give me their fryer oil for free!!!

Sorry if you already knew all this.........like i said, looking forward to no more $80 fill ups once a week!!
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Running virgin oil (like the Wesson) can be run the same way........but why???
Because virgin oil is still VO and has the same viscosity problems as WVO

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Bio-diesel refineries take that virgin oil and add chemical (lye and some other stuff) so as it can be run STRAIGHT in the vehicle's stock tank........but that's not WASTE VO.
Not exactly.
The lye and some other stuff that are added actually convert the VO into an oil that is very similar to regular (petro) diesel by stripping out the glycerine. BD has the same viscosity and molecular weight as petro so the two can be mixed and used interchangably.

The lye etc added to the VO during the conversion must be removed before the BD can be used as fuel, they are not there just to allow you to run straight VO in a stock tank
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Old 06-13-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
Because virgin oil is still VO and has the same viscosity problems as WVO


The "But Why" question simply was meant to ask why run virgin VO @ $2.50 a gallon when WVO is free.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
Not exactly.
The lye and some other stuff that are added actually convert the VO into an oil that is very similar to regular (petro) diesel by stripping out the glycerine. BD has the same viscosity and molecular weight as petro so the two can be mixed and used interchangably.
Not sure what I wrote different........but thanks for the detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
The lye etc added to the VO during the conversion must be removed before the BD can be used as fuel,
Again, thanks for the detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
they are not there just to allow you to run straight VO in a stock tank

Of course they are..........it's part of the refinery process. Without it, you couldn't run it straight.
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Old 06-13-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Not sure what I wrote different........but thanks for the detail.


Of course they are..........it's part of the refinery process. Without it, you couldn't run it straight.
What you wrote earlier seemed to imply that you thought the lye and methanol were an additive to VO that allowed it to be run as normal diesel. That is not true and is in fact a recipe for disaster. I was trying to prevent you from engaging in that activity. If I misunderstood your understanding of the process I apologize.

I still see some evidence that you do not totally understand what the conversion of VO to BD involves. If I am wrong I apologize again but I think it is important.

First the conversion process is not in any way a refining process.
It is a chemical reaction (base catylized trans-esterification) in which the 3 fatty acids are severed from the glycerol (glycerine) back bone of Veg Oil. The glycerol is extracted and the fatty acids are converted into Methyl Esters. The resulting molecules are the same size and have physical properties similar to the straight chain hydrocarbon that form diesel. Chemically the Esters have two oxygen atoms, in their makeup, that are not present in reg diesel. The added oxygen accounts for the reduced pollutants found in BD exhaust products.
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Last edited by Phydeaux88; 06-13-2006 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:35 PM
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Fair enough........refining is the incorrect term. I certainly would not attempt to create bio without staying at a Holiday Inn Express for at least one night!!!

The bottom line to me was the diff between WVO and Bio-diesel is the ability to run one (BIO)using the existing fuel system (after the chemical reaction) and the other(WVO) having to have a separate tank/heater/filter sytem.


You're correct in that I don't know all the details...........but I think I know the main differences.


Also was trying to understand why one would run virgin oil that costs nearly the same as diesel ( within $.60 a gallon)in a system designed to run free fuel????


Also understand that 100BIO from co-ops is under $2.00 a gallon.........again negating running VO in a WVO system.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:09 PM
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I think most of the objection to Bio comes from the time and cost to run the conversion cycle.

Folks compare the production cost, around $1.00/gal, and the time needed for production of Bio then compare it to the cost of WVO, $0.00/gal, and the significantly less time to prepare.

They think that WVO will save $$$. I think the fail to consider the hidden cost of using WVO first the conversion kit and installation cost about twice what an Appleseed Processor costs, second when the time comes to replace the truck their pool of potential buyers will be greatly limited.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
I think most of the objection to Bio comes from the time and cost to run the conversion cycle.

Folks compare the production cost, around $1.00/gal, and the time needed for production of Bio then compare it to the cost of WVO, $0.00/gal, and the significantly less time to prepare.

They think that WVO will save $$$. I think the fail to consider the hidden cost of using WVO first the conversion kit and installation cost about twice what an Appleseed Processor costs, second when the time comes to replace the truck their pool of potential buyers will be greatly limited.
I just completed my WVO conversion on my 95. Total cost for conversion and WVO collection equipment $1000. My only recurring cost is filters.

I burn 95% of all oil I collect. With fuel oil over $3 a gallon my return on investment is 330 gallons of WVO.

I would say the greatest risk is WVO done wrong it will destroy you engine.
That is a very large hidden cost.
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:36 PM
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Willbd

I agree with everything you say, my big concern is the marketability of your truck at time to sell. You may not easily find a buyer that wants to do WVO.

I dont know if it is possible to "go back", if it is that may be a moot issue.

$1000 for everything seems a little low to me did you add the fuel heaters etc?
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:56 PM
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I have 3 heat exchangers and a heated Radcor fuel filter. 1 heat exchanger in the front tank.
18 feet of heated fuel hose and 1 artic fox heat exchanger.

It took me 12 hours to complete the conversion.
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:56 PM
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