Propane injection idea

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:23 PM
rusty70f100's Avatar
rusty70f100
rusty70f100 is offline
Post Fiend
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Propane injection idea

Now admittedly this idea will sound a bit crazy:

We know that propane can act as a refrigerant in automotive AC systems. Safe, maybe not, but it does work.

Now here's my idea:
Direct cylinder injection, of LIQUID propane, in a 4 cycle internal combustion engine, when the piston is at or a little after BDC, starting the compression stroke, right after the intake valve closes. The propane would cool the air in the cylinder as it transformed from a liquid to a gas, lowering the amount of force needed to compress the mixture, thereby increasing engine output and efficiency. Then it would be ignited conventionally by a spark plug slightly before TDC.

Thoughts? Just something that popped into my head this morning.
 
  #2  
Old 06-06-2006, 02:18 PM
aurgathor's Avatar
aurgathor
aurgathor is offline
Cargo Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 2,898
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
In short: silly.

When a liquid turns into gas, that will increase the pressure, so even if your mixture nay become a few degrees cooler there will be more gas which will more than make up for that little drop in temperature.
 
  #3  
Old 06-06-2006, 02:59 PM
76supercab2's Avatar
76supercab2
76supercab2 is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Although if you could properly meter it, you could inject liquid propane to the intake manifold, let the expansion of the fuel cool the intake charge and pack a denser air/fuel mix into the cylinder. IF you could properly meter it.
 
  #4  
Old 06-06-2006, 03:52 PM
rusty70f100's Avatar
rusty70f100
rusty70f100 is offline
Post Fiend
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Oh that's right! It would expand wouldn't it. Oh well, at least I'm thinking!
 
  #5  
Old 06-06-2006, 06:55 PM
aurgathor's Avatar
aurgathor
aurgathor is offline
Cargo Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 2,898
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
At least you admit that you made a mistake and won't argue about it!

Intercoolers do make sense with turbo or superchargers where the air heats up somewhat. You can get more power out by using a cooler mixture, but how would that effect efficiency, I do not know. More power doesn't necessarily mean more efficient operation.
 
  #6  
Old 06-06-2006, 07:46 PM
Gunner15a's Avatar
Gunner15a
Gunner15a is offline
Elder User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Billings Mo
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Now admittedly this idea will sound a bit crazy:

We know that propane can act as a refrigerant in automotive AC systems. Safe, maybe not, but it does work.

Now here's my idea:
Direct cylinder injection, of LIQUID propane, in a 4 cycle internal combustion engine, when the piston is at or a little after BDC, starting the compression stroke, right after the intake valve closes. The propane would cool the air in the cylinder as it transformed from a liquid to a gas, lowering the amount of force needed to compress the mixture, thereby increasing engine output and efficiency. Then it would be ignited conventionally by a spark plug slightly before TDC.

Thoughts? Just something that popped into my head this morning.
Problem: You cooling the air charge AFTER it's in the combustion chamber, then compressing it AGAIN, then igniting it. The fuel you're using is actually cutting the power you can get out of your engine.

Gunner15a
 
  #7  
Old 06-08-2006, 08:53 PM
furball69's Avatar
furball69
furball69 is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 2,628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe Chrysler played around with liquid propane injection. Don't know what came of it, but I don't think it's in wide use anywhere.
 
  #8  
Old 06-08-2006, 09:30 PM
aurgathor's Avatar
aurgathor
aurgathor is offline
Cargo Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 2,898
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
If something is good and useful, or at least with some 'perceived benefits' usually make it to market in some way. Things with no benefits or marginal benefits usually do not, unless mandated. Of course, this doesn't include smaller entities or people peddling 'snake-oil' type items.
 
  #9  
Old 06-12-2006, 11:11 AM
fraso's Avatar
fraso
fraso is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort Erie, ON
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Liquid propane injection is already commercially available both in the USA and in Europe. The only way for automotive LPG conversions to meet current EPA regulations is with port injection and vapor injection is more commonly used than liquid injection.

Generally, conversions are done for economic reasons rather than for 1/4 mile drag racing performance. Actually, it is not the fuel that governs the performance of an engine but rather the amount of air that it can ingest. Propane's effect on full-throttle performance is that the propane vapor displaces more air in the intake manifold than atomized liquid gasoline. Once in the combustion chamber, all fuels must be vaporized before they can burn.
 
  #10  
Old 06-16-2006, 12:36 AM
"Beemer Nut"'s Avatar
"Beemer Nut"
"Beemer Nut" is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: "Islander"
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Look at the BTU numbers on propane vs other fuels.

In 1,000 BTU's

diesel 139.2

gasoline 125

LPG 95.4

propane 91.5

ethanol 84.4

methanol 62.8

hydrogen 51.9

.....=o&o>.....
 




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 PM.