polarbear & Big350:

I reckon you are both right. My girlfriend drives a late model BMW - which is an amazing piece of equipment. The inline 6 sounds like riped silk near the redline. The car is unshakable (and trust me, I have tried and tried!!) and endless fun to drive. At 120 it feels like you should look around the cabin for something to read, maybe have a beer and rest while the world sails past. It is amazing how well it can handle speed.

BUT. As polarbear said, now out of warrenty and the little bits are expensive to fix. Zenon headlights, cabin blower fan, cam position sensior, etc. But while we all think of GM as "cheap parts" I doubt that parts specific to the new caddys are any cheaper than the BMW. But I have no way of knowing.

The interesting thing is that, as Big350 said, our resale value on the 3 series is excellent. She has put a lot of miles on that car, it has worn really well, still feels tight as drum, and is still worth a considerable sum. Amazing. And it sounds / feels so damn good at the limit.

But the little service bits are costly. And sometimes we wish we had changed cars before the warrenty expired.

In that way, the big Germans are suffering from the same problems that the 6.0 seems to have. There is so much technology in the big Merc sedans that recent years haev had huge issues with that interface. PB pointed out hte annoying i-drive. And most PSD's issues seem to be related to EPROM, sensor, and EGT systems.

I think the mfgr's have gone too far to meet this consumer demand for everything all the time rather than focusing on specific strengths.

Personally, I would rather have a simpler truck- And I would give up performance at the stoplight for dependability and long term reliability.

It looks like Mercedes has tried to simplify their electronics to address their recent spike in warrenty costs- I suspect that Tier II will not give the PSD the same option.

That leaves the injection question- I liked HEUI because it was simple and there were no high pressure fuel lines. I liked the idea of a unit injector producing the high pressure. And I worry abotu long term issues with high pressure lines.

But it looks like the high pressure rail (BOSCH) is taking over the market.

In terms of simplicity and longevity, I have no idea which is the better route.

-Mike

 

i think vehicles even though built cheap and with less steel than ever, i think they are better than ever.

there is no way, that i would buy an old 1985 truck and drive it past 100k. i have seen tons of money dumped in uncomfortable noisy POS trucks. Why. the only thing old trucks are good for is 35 inch swampers and a 12 inch lift.

i love new trucks, and while they can be more tempermental, i would not replace them for the old trucks that are far more simple.

bring on the high hp and the technology. if GM or Ford is smart enough to make it, then I can learn to be smart enough to fix it's problems that occure down the road.

i still can't get over being able to add 200hp to a durmax by pluging in some plastic box. 10 years ago if you would have told someone that, they would have called you a liar.

my dad keeps telling me that gas engines were worn out at 70-80k and i am still driving a car that is going at 160k. we are getting better in reliabilty.

 

ok ernie how about we push gm to detune the hot zo6 7.0 /427 and dump that in a pickup. maybe give us a gm lighting. take the ver of the blue devil 700hp 7.0 detune it a touch and drop it in a 1500 2x4. call it the chevy lightingrod.

 

Does Ford plan on making any new V8's in the near future, perhaps one that displaces more than 330 cubic inches? The 5.4l seems to be a pretty good engine, but with only 300hp it seems like it is over-shadowed by 6.0's and Hemis. I know that horsepower isnt really what matters most in a truck, and the 365 lb.-ft of torque it makes can get the job done, but it just seems like the other big 2 have upped the ante. And if they aren't going to make a new one, can or is the 5.4l going to be improved slightly to make par, or is it some-how perfect as it is? I was just wondering if someone could shed some light on the situation.
-thanks

 

A 6.2 with some decent numbers should be down the pike. problem is, the V10 will probably bite the dust when it does surface.

 

Aw, well, the V10 seems like an awesome engine, it would be neat to have one in an F-150.

 

Not really all that impressive since the fuel econ comes from the trasnmission, and the car weighs what, next to nothing.

 

Please show me another car with the same capabilities that pulls those type of numbers. You won't find one from Ford or DC.

 

Please tell me how you get both performance and economy at the same time.

 

btw,

Porsche turbo, Lotus Elise, BMW M series, Acura NSX... all within a couple mpg highway, city is within 1 MPG

 

Ok lets break down your list of cars. First the Vettes:

Base Coupe, 43K, mpg 18-28
Z06, 64K, mpg 16-26

None of the Vettes pay a gas guzzler tax.

Ok, now the cars that can at least compete in the price range.

BMW M3, 51K, mpg 16-23
Lotus, 42K, mpg 23-27

The BMW pays the guzzler tax. The Lotus is a very fun car with good performance and on a tight track with short straights can run circles around the Vette. But I dare you to take a cross crounty trip in it or even trying to go to the golf course.

Now the cars that cost more, some much more.

BMW M5, 74K, 12-18
Porshe 911, 71K, 18-25
NSX, 89K, 17-24

The BMW pays the gas guzzler tax for sure, the NSX will be close. All these cars are nice. But you won't by any of these for anywhere near MSRP. None of these cars can really compete against the Z06. The base model is better comp at half the price. Now the new Turbo Porsche is due out anytime and will compete well with Z06 but will cost north of 100k.

And again you didn't answer my question, where is Ford and DC. Show me a car that can run 0-60 under 5.0 sec, has a top speed of 186, runs the skid pad at almost 1g, is able to carry 2 sets of golf clubs in cart bags and 2 people, is capable running at the track or as a daily driver and still get 18-28mpg. Porsche is about the only comp out there and will not do it as well the Vette or as cheaply.

 

Not to mention the fact that we have a 4 cyl and two 6 cyl cars, vs. a 6.0L pushrod, naturally aspirated V8. One that's been refined to the nth degree, but still "old tech" in the scheme of things. At 3400 lbs, the 'Vette isn't really a lightweight either.

If we really talk the players in the Corvette sandbox, it's the Nissan/Infinity 350Z/G35 Coupe, the Porsche Carerra, the Mercedes SLK, and the Dodge Viper. All of the competitions products have their strong and weak points- but none of them offer the blend of performance and utility that the Corvette does except the porsche- and that comes at a pricetag of about $30,000 more, in a slower car.

 

Most of those cars dont share the same signal stock as the Cobalt either.


Why does the car have to be from DCX or FoMoCo? While some of those cars have cons like higher MSRP, they also have things like luxury and prestege. I wont name specifically what they have over the vette, I am sure you can see what the pros and cons are.

I am just kinda tired of seeing every vette owner tout the fuel econ of there 60+ thousand dollar sports car... who cares, like I said its not impressive to me considering. IMO...

 

Owning a 'Vette isn't about fuel economy- that's the lowest priority on the totem pole. the point is, the engineering expertise was there to build a car that could trash those other makes on the track- and still be more efficient while doing it. Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes owners can find solace in finely fitted interior matierials. they have to, 'cause they get outrun and out-valued otherwise. Same deal with the Ford GT, just a little further upmarket.

 

To be honest I don't think most of those cars have anything over a Vette. Price to performance in any category you want to name and they lose. In the end and this is just my opinion is these are just cars. Prestige? Not from any of the cars you mentioned. You want to throw in some of the exotics then maybe there is some prestige. I see many more Porsche's, BMW and Mercedes on the road than Vettes.

It was not until I really started looking at the Vette, the C6 specifically that I really started to be impressed. I delivers more for less money than the compition. Oh and by the way even though I have the money to buy cars like this the reason I have that money was paying attention to things like mpg and insurance cost.

And your 60+ thousand dollar price tag, where did you come up with that? While here in the PNW MSRP is the norm you can go to the larger Vette dealers and get them for 4-5k under MSRP. If you are a car person IMO there is no way you can be anything other than impressed.

The reason for the DCX/Ford gripe is because they are not competing IMO. My wifes Mustang GT is a great car, looks good and is fun to drive provided you are not doing 5+ hours drives in it. But even though the car is physically a little smaller it wieghs 500 lbs more. It needs a 6th gear because at 75 the engine is turning 2000rpms or so. Even my wife is looking for another gear on the freeway. Why can't they take some wieght out. It will improve perfoamce in all categories. If you have a chance to get a hold of Corvette Quarterly, the spring 2006 edition read the article in there. I wish that all manufactures would be as **** as the vette crew was in maximizing the performance of this vehicle out.

Anyway enough with my soap box. Some people don't like Vette's and that is OK. But I will never understand not giving credit where credit is due. There are many cars I would never own and Porsche is one of them. But I do admire them for what they have brought to the table. Without them there would not be a C6 IMO.