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Why the new Tundra won't be the best-seller

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  #16  
Old 02-25-2006, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jschira
Now it all makes sense to me. Sorry. My mistake. I was all wrong. I guess that is why I let the wife balance the checkbook.

Thanks for clearing it up for me.
glad I could help
 
  #17  
Old 02-27-2006, 02:22 AM
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Excellent post Polar. This should really put some perspective into the guys that were getting all anxious over the New Toy truck.
 
  #18  
Old 02-27-2006, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by NickFordMan
Excellent post Polar. This should really put some perspective into the guys that were getting all anxious over the New Toy truck.
Why is anyone anxious over a new truck?

Have you heard the saying:

If you build a better mousetrap, people will buy it.
Why would anyone be troubled over someone selling a better mousetrap (or even a mousetrap that is only just as good)?
 
  #19  
Old 02-27-2006, 08:22 AM
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Interesting article in Autoweek. You'd think that they were reading my mind.

In the case of the popular four-door configuration, Toyota was late to the party and missed a big opportunity to lure domestic truck owners when it finally arrived in late 2003.

Toyota found that more than half the customers who rejected the Tundra said it did not offer the configuration they needed or that the dealer did not have the right model in inventory.

Another major reason for rejection was the Tundra's low towing capacity. The new model, with more configurations and higher towing capacity, will address both those concerns, Bastien says.

Toyota also loses some rural customers because it lacks a nearby dealership. Toyota has about 1,200 dealerships, compared with 3,800 for Ford, 4,100 for Chevrolet and 2,900 for Dodge. Toyota is adding rural satellite dealerships to appeal to farmers and ranchers. But that plan is expected to add a couple of dozen stores at most.

Then there's the matter of overcoming generations of brand loyalty to Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge, observes Leonard Northcutt, who owns Toyota and GM dealerships in Enid, Okla.

"There is a large cultural difference between Toyota and GM customers," Northcutt says. His Tundra sales are predominantly to Toyota loyalists.

Toyota builds the Tundra in Indiana and Texas. But, Northcutt says, "Buy American" sympathies are less important than product attributes.
Read the whole article here:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60227002/1041
 
  #20  
Old 02-27-2006, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jschira
Why would anyone be troubled over someone selling a better mousetrap (or even a mousetrap that is only just as good)?
Are you serious? You're assuming right off the bat, the totally new Toyota will be perfect, which just isn't going to be the case. It's a completely new truck, that's going to be built in a new plant. We've already seen that this truck will not be HD in any way, and the options will be limited.
This outside the fact that the truck is atrocious in design. It doesn't seem to be just my opinion either.

I love Ford as a company...best trucks I've ever seen. When another company wants to target Ford's main market, I pay attention. This is part of being a Ford truck enthusiast.
 
  #21  
Old 02-27-2006, 09:51 AM
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Toyota could start a price war. Its profits are so large, around $10 billion a year, that it could give away free every big pickup it could build and still come out more profitable than what the Detroit companies earn together a typical year, not a year like last year, when GM lost $8.4 billion.
Regardless of their ability to lead the big truck market, this is still a telling statement. Sadly, I would still rather be in their shoes at this point.
 
  #22  
Old 02-27-2006, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by NickFordMan
Are you serious? You're assuming right off the bat, the totally new Toyota will be perfect, which just isn't going to be the case.

I love Ford as a company...best trucks I've ever seen. When another company wants to target Ford's main market, I pay attention. This is part of being a Ford truck enthusiast.
I'm not assuming anything. And I am curious. You are the one that is anxious. What is causing your anxiety? If you thought that Toyo was going to introduce a piece of crap, would you be calm?

Competition kills complacency. That makes it a good thing. If Ford continues to build the best truck, it should continue to get the lion's share of the market.
 
  #23  
Old 02-27-2006, 09:59 AM
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Toyota could start a price war.
Originally Posted by jbabbler
Regardless of their ability to lead the big truck market, this is still a telling statement. Sadly, I would still rather be in their shoes at this point.
Wait a minute. Who started the fire sale price war last year? If you look, Toyo is way down the list of $rebates$ per car.

The reality is that Toyo's cars don't cost as much to make, so Toyo can sell them at a lower price and still make bunches of $$$$. Ford's massive production quantities should give them an edge.
 
  #24  
Old 02-27-2006, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jschira
Wait a minute. Who started the fire sale price war last year? If you look, Toyo is way down the list of $rebates$ per car.

The reality is that Toyo's cars don't cost as much to make, so Toyo can sell them at a lower price and still make bunches of $$$$. Ford's massive production quantities should give them an edge.
I understand what you are saying here but you can't look past this part of the quote. Why did you quote around it? We can't just omit the parts we don't like. ---->
Its profits are so large, around $10 billion a year, that it could give away free every big pickup it could build and still come out more profitable than what the Detroit companies earn together a typical year, not a year like last year, when GM lost $8.4 billion.
From an investment center perspective, I would much rather have the ABILITY to cut my price to $0 and still make a larger profit than the competition. Toyota doesn't need to win the truck war to win the "corporate success" war.
 
  #25  
Old 02-27-2006, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jbabbler
I understand what you are saying here but you can't look past this part of the quote. Why did you quote around it? We can't just omit the parts we don't like. ---->

Its profits are so large, around $10 billion a year, that it could give away free every big pickup it could build and still come out more profitable than what the Detroit companies earn together a typical year, not a year like last year, when GM lost $8.4 billion.
Because Toyo did not get to where it is today by giving its cars away. If you look at MSRP, Toyo products are likely to be higher than comparable products from Detroit, and Toyo doesn't use big rebates.

If Toyo is going to the expensive of building a new plant just to make trucks, then it must believe that it can make money selling trucks. Based on its past performance, I'd say that they are right.

So the idea that Toyo is going to start a price war (in other words, "buy" its way into the truck market) is just not that believable.
 
  #26  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:44 PM
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More interesting quotes:

About one-quarter of trade-ins for Titans are domestic full-sized trucks, said Gene Brown, senior manager for truck model line marketing for Nissan North America Inc.

* * *

Although Power Information Network data show Titan transaction prices as lower than those of the competition, Brown says Nissan's per-vehicle incentives costs for the Titan also are lower.

"We're not going to buy share," Brown says. "We're not going to break the bank to get volume."
Early Ridgeline sales were almost entirely to Honda loyalists, says Tom Peyton, Honda Division marketing manager. But Hondaphiles now account for fewer than one-third of Ridgeline sales, the company says.

Honda is aiming for upscale buyers. Most conquests are young families coming out of an SUV or a minivan, Peyton said.

* * *

"Going after Ford or Chevy is not my primary focus."
 
  #27  
Old 02-27-2006, 01:57 PM
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I think the first time someone throws their 24' Mastercraft behind their Ridgeline they'll wish they had actually bought a truck. There is definately a market for the Ridgeline but I can't imagine a contractor pulling up in one at a construction site or a county employee pushing a snowplow down the street with that "minivan".
 
  #28  
Old 02-27-2006, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by polarbear
Correct- but to read the press reviews of the new Tundra, you'd think it was the end of the full-sized domestic pickup as we know it- and the manufacturers that make them. The point was Toyota is not invincible (this is their 3rd attempt to crack this market), and the Japanese aren't guaranteed success in this particular market (look at Nissan's underachieving Titan). So while the press oooh's and aaah's over the Titan, the Ridgeline, and the Tundra- two of the three have substantialled fallen short of sales expectations.
It would be difficult to argue that Toyota has tried to "crack" the full size market with non-full size trucks. And remember that the Tundra has often been a lot more expensive than the mid-size trucks with which it competes.

Toyota is not set to become the #1 auto maker on the globe by playing fast and stupid. And to cite a Forbes article as proof of anything is to miss the fact that they held up Enron as a model corporation only months before it imploded ina mountain of debt and fraudlent accounting practices. You and I may not aspire to own Toyotas. And I may continue to prefer Ford trucks for reasons that history may one day prove to be irrational, but I say ignore Toyota at your peril Ford and GM.

-Mike
 
  #29  
Old 02-27-2006, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jschira
I'm not assuming anything. And I am curious. You are the one that is anxious. What is causing your anxiety? If you thought that Toyo was going to introduce a piece of crap, would you be calm?

Competition kills complacency. That makes it a good thing. If Ford continues to build the best truck, it should continue to get the lion's share of the market.
You are assuming, and it's become very obvious with each post you make.
I'm not anxious, I was referring to the mass of threads the first day the Toy half-ton was revealed. Many people believed that the Toy would be Number one right off the bat...and it simply won't happen.

I'm not saying Ford should get sloppy...I mean, look at what happened to the car market.
There still seems to be this unjustified stigma over the domestics...and it kills me. People driving around in rusted out 10 year old imports, with body panels falling off, and engine sounds that I've never heard before, all while paying for more expensive parts, will tell me that imports are superior. Then I look at my 10 year old truck, with no rust, hard work duty most of it's life...a truck that's never failed me, and I can't believe what I'm hearing.
This is just part of a stigma that has no end it seems.

Competition is good. Progress would be years slower without competition. New technology has been pushed to the market. More quality, and longer lasting vehicles have emerged as a result. Just don't count on a Japanese take-over.
 
  #30  
Old 02-28-2006, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NickFordMan
You are assuming, and it's become very obvious with each post you make.
Yes, I love Japanese imports. That's why I don't own any. I want to make sure that there are plenty to go around for everyone else to enjoy.
 


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