Is it legal or even advisable to use a 3Ø breaker panel on a single Ø service entrance? I am just asking because I can pick up those panels used populated with breakers real cheap compared to single phase panels. I realize I would have to be carefull which slots I plugged single phase breakers in both single and double poles.

 

Not legal unless marked for the intended use, that is 120/240VAC.

 

Thanks, I figured as much.

 

Where are you finding three phase panels for cheap? I'm looking for a few...

Single phase panels are cheap enough at Home Depot that it isn't worth the trouble to use three phase panels for a single phase job. The single and two pole breakers you find in a three-phase panel can often be transferred to the equivalent single phase panel. Square D QO breakers will work in either single or three phase panels. So will Siemens, Murray, etc 1 inch breakers. So buy the panel and strip the breakers. On the other hand, many industrial three phase panels take QOB (bolt in) breakers, and those will not work in QO single phase panels.

You can use a three phase panel, in relative safety. It probably isn't code compliant and probably won't pass inspection. But what you could, in theory, do is hook your single phase to any two legs of the panel, and omit every third breaker in each column (or fill the space with an unused breaker). The phases in a three phase panel go A-B-C-A-B-C down each column. If you use legs A and B for your single phase enterprise, then every "C" space is unused. 240 volt loads can be taken from a two-pole breaker in an "AB" position. 120 volt loads can be taken from a single pole breaker in an "A" position or a "B" position. The "C" positions get filled with single pole breakers with nothing connected to them, just to close up the hole.

You don't even have to be all that "careful" which position you use. If you get it wrong, the circuit won't work. No obvious, immediate hazard is created. There is, of course, a significant hazard from someone coming along later and trying to figure out what in @#$! is going on with your "farmer" wiring.

 

It depends on your funds, If I already had it I'd use it just use the hot beaker slots and leave the others covered dont knock the panel cover slots out. Or if used panel just plug the holes.

On the other hand a nice new 16 or 24 circuit QO would be a nice complement to any service.

SQ-D the only way to go!

 

There is an industrial salvage place here in KC called the Surplus Exchange that had a number of panels cheap the last time I was in there of course their "inventory" can change. Ebay also has used panels and the smaller 225A etc panels can go fairly cheap. Shipping is high tho. Some have a main breaker and some don't. It seems Square-D would be the best bet, Siemens second. It depends on which panel has the least amount of space at the top of the panel since this is an upgrade installation. It will be inspected which is why I asked whether it was legal. I am moving my original 100A FP panel to my shop and running 4-wire service to it.

 

Seen a 150 amp panel with main breaker for $89 for sq D. at home depot

 

MY .02C worth,
When shopping for a load center,Look for copper buss, or copper plated buss.
Aluminum can give you problems. Also, get twice the number of spaces that you think you might need (or more). Funny how in a few years from now that "you never dreamed" you'd use up all those spaces.
Spare/open conduits to the attic /or basement to the new panel is also wise.

Eric- If "moving my 100 A FP panel" means Federal Pacific panel, Please reconsider! FPE is the junkiest of the junk.

PS: SQ D, ITE ,GE, ect. all used to make quality panel boards (some still do), but they have all come out with cheep home center versions that are not so good.
Installing a new or upgraded electrical service should be a once in a life time deal, if you get it right.

 

Some people don't like the Federal Pacific panels and there was a production problem with some 30A dual breakers but I have never had any problems with my FP panels and I have tripped a number of breakers over the years (even the mains once b4 I re-balanced the loads). I have measured the current in every circuit and overloaded some as a test and the breakers worked (utility heaters and a few bulbs work great as a calibrated dummy load). I have 3 of those panels and lots of breakers. I have noticed that some panels at the supply house have copper busbars or plated bars and others don't.

I know what you mean about not enuf breakers. My panels are full and are even beyond the rated # of circuits listed on the label. I calculated the loads according to the NEC and my own methods and I need a 200A panel. Now if I get a bunch of friends over and we are all working the machinery then I need a 400A service, -like that will ever happen, for some odd reason they all like to stand around and watch someone else work... I do have emergency lights if the power does go out tho.

 

[QUOTE=Ultraute]
Eric- If "moving my 100 A FP panel" means Federal Pacific panel, Please reconsider! FPE is the junkiest of the junk.
QUOTE]

I have to disagree here. While FPE is not the highest quality, Zinsco or Bulldog pushmatic breakers would be my first choices. I would buy a new panel and breakers before I re-used any of the above brands. They are no longer made for a reason. I used to save the breakers from all of the above when changing a service, as replacements are hard to impossible to find. I have since decided that I would sooner sell a new panel and breakers as take on the liability of installing a used 30+ year old breaker. I once put my amp meter on a 20 amp Zinsco breaker that carried a constant 46 amps. What got me wondering was the insulation had burned off the wire for about 4 inches at the breaker.

I don’t think there is any thing illegle in using a three phase panel on single phase as long as the holes are all plugged. There in lies the problem, all used panels I have seen have about 30 more holes in them than you will need, so you have to buy plugs to fill them. If you are paying an electrician to do the work, you can buy a lot of panel for the price of the labor it takes to save and reuse old stuff. That’s my 2 cents worth, and it may be over priced.

 

I would have to agree that if I was an electrician installing a panel for someone else I would install new... In this case it is me installing for me with parts I have confidence in. Some of those pushmatic setups were real cheesy. I don't like working with Cutler Hammer panels either.

 

I second the vote for Zinsco as the worst of the lot. They have a really bad reputation for not tripping the breaker when they should. Yah, it's an "inverse time breaker", but it should not pass 2x rated load for 2+ hours, like some of them do (I've heard this from two other guys plus you.) And then there are the aluminum busbars. I junked all my Zinsco panels, and the breakers that were in them.

 

[QUOTE=Ultraute]PS: SQ D, ITE ,GE, ect. all used to make quality panel boards (some still do), but they have all come out with cheep home center versions that are not so good.
QUOTE]

The "Home Center" load centers are junk. I've heard from friends who are professional electricians that the bus bars tend to burn out. The breakers seem to be okay though. (FeFarms, have you seen this?)

So, I guess if you're going to do it yourself buy your breakers from the home center but by the load center from a reputable source.

 

For a 1 inch form factor panelboard, with availability at Home Centers. I've always used Siemens. Never had a problem with the panels or breakers. I never saw a reason to use the Square-D Homeline, though I've not heard anything bad about the line.

 

I believe it was the Square D Homeline series that my buddy talked about. He said that if you are running close to capacity on the load center that the bus bars won't hold up. The breakers seem to be the regular item though.

Most of the stuff around here is Square D or Cutler-Hammer.