7.3 Throttle Response Problems
#16
04-29-2009, 10:09 PM
My 2001 F250 7.3L diesel has the dreaded P0221 code. No throttle response. Idle is fine.
It is getting worse. New PCM but still not working. IVS works fine when I checked it with an analog multimeter. So I have to bite the bullet and have the dealer run diags on it.
On a side note. My F250 was recalled for the CMP. It already stranded me. They put in a new one in 2005 but now, 2009, a recall replaced even that part with a redesigned one.
Does Ford make anything electrical that does work????
It is getting worse. New PCM but still not working. IVS works fine when I checked it with an analog multimeter. So I have to bite the bullet and have the dealer run diags on it.
On a side note. My F250 was recalled for the CMP. It already stranded me. They put in a new one in 2005 but now, 2009, a recall replaced even that part with a redesigned one.
Does Ford make anything electrical that does work????
#17
04-29-2009, 10:57 PM
I am in Tracy, CA. I can read the codes with my Diablosport scanner. But I don't know how to run KOER test. Seems I remember using a jumper on my old Bronco 2. But don't know how to do it on the F250. It doesn't always throw a code when it stops responding to the throttle. But when it does it shows a P0221. Which seems to be the PCM saying I'm confused.
#18
04-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Sounds like a classic TPS (throttle position sensor).
Here's what I would do. Take a pic of your throttle pedal assembly, contact Ed (FTE-PartsGuy), send him the pic and he will get you the Ford part at a lower price than anywhere else. Since he's also on hte Left Coast, the shipping time should only be a couple days at most. Do not rely on your year model anda parts list to identify your correct part number... that approach did NOT work for me!!
The thing to make sure of is whether or not your unit is a two-part system or a single-part system. On some models, you can replace just the sensor by itself, which is what "the book" said about mine, but evidently when mine was put together, they didn't have any more of the two-part assembly's handy and used an older one-piece system where the sensor is integral with the pedal assembly. Ouch!! $75 instead of $35 for just the sensor alone.
Also, as a first line of defense, you can get some electrical contact cleaner and dose the sensor up really well one evening (first unplugging teh wiring connector), let it dry overnight, plug in the sensor connector in the morning and go for it. I know of several people who have gotten several more years out of their TPS by just using the contact cleaner approach.
Hope this helps, and let us know how it turns out.
By the way... replacing the unit is really easy if you have a ratchet, and a 10mm socket.... three bolts and one wiring connector.
Here's what I would do. Take a pic of your throttle pedal assembly, contact Ed (FTE-PartsGuy), send him the pic and he will get you the Ford part at a lower price than anywhere else. Since he's also on hte Left Coast, the shipping time should only be a couple days at most. Do not rely on your year model anda parts list to identify your correct part number... that approach did NOT work for me!!
The thing to make sure of is whether or not your unit is a two-part system or a single-part system. On some models, you can replace just the sensor by itself, which is what "the book" said about mine, but evidently when mine was put together, they didn't have any more of the two-part assembly's handy and used an older one-piece system where the sensor is integral with the pedal assembly. Ouch!! $75 instead of $35 for just the sensor alone.
Also, as a first line of defense, you can get some electrical contact cleaner and dose the sensor up really well one evening (first unplugging teh wiring connector), let it dry overnight, plug in the sensor connector in the morning and go for it. I know of several people who have gotten several more years out of their TPS by just using the contact cleaner approach.
Hope this helps, and let us know how it turns out.
By the way... replacing the unit is really easy if you have a ratchet, and a 10mm socket.... three bolts and one wiring connector.
#19
04-30-2009, 12:27 AM
Thanks. I will give the TPS a go. I am under a time crunch so I will try Ford first. I think that is the logical next step. Unless it's a wiring harness problem it can only really be the TPS. I can't see how to spray spray contact cleaner into the assembly since it is a one piece sealed unit. And it's a plastic housing so contact cleaner could melt it. An interesting side note is that the pedal came off the unit once. Just the plastic pedal not the metal arm. It is a real piece of junk. I don't know what they were thinking when they designed the pedal assembly.
..editorial on crappy pedal design deleted...
Again, thank you so much for your feedback. It really helps me plan my next step. I will drive the Mustang over to Ford in the morning (at least it runs). I already yanked out the F250 pedal assembly. Are we having fun yet?
..editorial on crappy pedal design deleted...
Again, thank you so much for your feedback. It really helps me plan my next step. I will drive the Mustang over to Ford in the morning (at least it runs). I already yanked out the F250 pedal assembly. Are we having fun yet?
#20
04-30-2009, 08:08 AM
Mike, the cleaner will not harm the plastic housing at all. Also, though the sensor housing is a closed unit, the joints between the two housing halves are not perfectly tight. I took mine off the truck and just washed the entire electrical postions down completely with the contact cleaner, and was careful to try to direct the spray nozzle's flow into any region where it might infiltrate the housing. Believe me, some will get in there, and then you can let it drain and dry overnight and put it back on and try it out.
If the cleaner resolves your problem, as it has with others, it's about an $8 fix as compared to much more from the dealer because they're just going to go ahead and replace it at MSRP (much more than the roughly $75 cost from Ed). Besides, if you buy from Ed, he is the Parts Manager at a Ford dealership, so you'll be getting the OEM part, but at a much reduced cost.
Here's Ed's contact information at Parr Ford in Bremerton, WA
Th!nkPartsGuy/FTEPartsGuy
Call (800) 434-7277, ask for Parts, then ask for Ed.
If the cleaner resolves your problem, as it has with others, it's about an $8 fix as compared to much more from the dealer because they're just going to go ahead and replace it at MSRP (much more than the roughly $75 cost from Ed). Besides, if you buy from Ed, he is the Parts Manager at a Ford dealership, so you'll be getting the OEM part, but at a much reduced cost.
Here's Ed's contact information at Parr Ford in Bremerton, WA
Th!nkPartsGuy/FTEPartsGuy
Call (800) 434-7277, ask for Parts, then ask for Ed.
#21
05-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Thanks for all the good advice and help.
Here are my results.
1. The Electrical Contact Cleaner works. I did put a small hole in the plastic case (very carefully) with an Xacto knife so I could get plenty of cleaner in there via that little red straw on the can. I actually could drive the vehicle with no problems. I can't say how long that would work though.
2. I bought a replacement pedal assembly from Ford. And surprise surprise it's a total redesign of the original pedal assembly. HAH! I just finished installing it. Man what a difference. Throttle response is sharp and much improved.
It's a much higher quality plastic part.
I think the P0221 code is a bit confusing. It points to an IVS problem but I think it can actually be a TPS problem. If the switch turns on late or the rheostat is dirty it confuses the heck out of the computer (PCM). I know that if I get this error again (with no other symptoms like running rough) I will swap out the pedal assembly first thing.
I hope this post will help others having the same problems.
Here are my results.
1. The Electrical Contact Cleaner works. I did put a small hole in the plastic case (very carefully) with an Xacto knife so I could get plenty of cleaner in there via that little red straw on the can. I actually could drive the vehicle with no problems. I can't say how long that would work though.
2. I bought a replacement pedal assembly from Ford. And surprise surprise it's a total redesign of the original pedal assembly. HAH! I just finished installing it. Man what a difference. Throttle response is sharp and much improved.
It's a much higher quality plastic part.
I think the P0221 code is a bit confusing. It points to an IVS problem but I think it can actually be a TPS problem. If the switch turns on late or the rheostat is dirty it confuses the heck out of the computer (PCM). I know that if I get this error again (with no other symptoms like running rough) I will swap out the pedal assembly first thing.
I hope this post will help others having the same problems.
#22
05-02-2009, 03:58 PM
Sounds like my issue with my 2000 F250 PSD. I am still waiting for my pedal from Desielsite.com. MY throttle stops working at times, and all I have to do is take my foot off the gas and peddle starts to work again. Sometimes the SES light comes on and then goes off when it is working again, but when I go to scan for codes nothing comes up. But I would say with a new pedal assembly which from the desielsite is about 175 vs 476 from the dealership would fix the problem.
#23
05-02-2009, 05:12 PM
#24
05-02-2009, 06:05 PM
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#25
09-28-2010, 01:56 PM
#26
09-28-2010, 04:11 PM
#27
08-21-2011, 08:25 PM
First Post. Have been collecting snippets over the years.
I had a CPS issue. Yours sounds like #2 below: (THis courtesy of some unknown post- perhaps flatratemechanic?)
1. Engine dies or runs rough intermittantly- Replace cam position sensor aka CMP. International part number 1825899C93 is latest version I have part number for.
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2. Engine defaults to idle from any rpm and throttle no longer responds unless engine is shut off and restarted- Throttle pedal assembly related, almost always due to a conflict in readings of the idle validation switch and throttle position sensor. Ford uses a microswitch as an idle validation switch, it is part of the throttle pedal assembly and dust/dirt/lint/toe jam etc can cause the microswitch to stick intermittantly causing default to idle. Clean the switch with some electrical contact spray or replace as needed, Ford doesnt sell the switch separately and the complete throttle pedal assembly must be purchased.
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3. Low power complaint when engine first started when cold. TC P0470-P0478. The engine backpressure control solenoid in the turbo pedestal starts to leak internally allowing oil pressure to close the turbo exhaust valve cutting off exhaust flow. Disconnecting the actuating rod is a temporary fix but the back pressure solenoid eventually starts to leak oil externally and turbo pedestal replacement is only cure. Also International has come out with a retrofit turbo up pipe kit to eliminate those pesky exhaust up pipe leaks at the turbo Y manifold donuts, I dont know if these also fit corresponding years of the PSD.
I had a CPS issue. Yours sounds like #2 below: (THis courtesy of some unknown post- perhaps flatratemechanic?)
1. Engine dies or runs rough intermittantly- Replace cam position sensor aka CMP. International part number 1825899C93 is latest version I have part number for.
<o =""></o>
2. Engine defaults to idle from any rpm and throttle no longer responds unless engine is shut off and restarted- Throttle pedal assembly related, almost always due to a conflict in readings of the idle validation switch and throttle position sensor. Ford uses a microswitch as an idle validation switch, it is part of the throttle pedal assembly and dust/dirt/lint/toe jam etc can cause the microswitch to stick intermittantly causing default to idle. Clean the switch with some electrical contact spray or replace as needed, Ford doesnt sell the switch separately and the complete throttle pedal assembly must be purchased.
<o =""></o>
3. Low power complaint when engine first started when cold. TC P0470-P0478. The engine backpressure control solenoid in the turbo pedestal starts to leak internally allowing oil pressure to close the turbo exhaust valve cutting off exhaust flow. Disconnecting the actuating rod is a temporary fix but the back pressure solenoid eventually starts to leak oil externally and turbo pedestal replacement is only cure. Also International has come out with a retrofit turbo up pipe kit to eliminate those pesky exhaust up pipe leaks at the turbo Y manifold donuts, I dont know if these also fit corresponding years of the PSD.
#28
10-11-2013, 12:52 PM
Same problem...
Throttle quit responding half way through an intersection - fortunately managed to coast to a shady parking spot... walking distance from work.
Borrowed the throttle assembly from one of our 7.3 work trucks with no luck - but didn't realize I should also check fuses at the same time.
I'll walk back over after we're done for the day - spare throttle assembly in hand, and check for fuses this time.
I have an Auto Enginuity scanner - but the laptop needs a power outlet. (I really don't want to have to admit towing my 7.3 home to finish trouble shooting this....)
Edit: I have a spare CPS in the center console, which will be plan B if the throttle and fuses all appear to be fine.
Borrowed the throttle assembly from one of our 7.3 work trucks with no luck - but didn't realize I should also check fuses at the same time.
I'll walk back over after we're done for the day - spare throttle assembly in hand, and check for fuses this time.
I have an Auto Enginuity scanner - but the laptop needs a power outlet. (I really don't want to have to admit towing my 7.3 home to finish trouble shooting this....)
Edit: I have a spare CPS in the center console, which will be plan B if the throttle and fuses all appear to be fine.
#29
10-11-2013, 12:58 PM
I would check the fuzes and does someone have a power inverter at work you can borrow to plug in the laptop. Is it possible you have two bad pedals? At least you were not stranded 100 miles from home like I was when mine went out a couple of years ago!
Throttle quit responding half way
an intersection - fortunately managed to coast to a shady parking spot... walking distance from work.
Borrowed the throttle assembly from one of our 7.3 work trucks with no luck - but didn't realize I should also check fuses at the same time.
I'll walk back over after we're done for the day - spare throttle assembly in hand, and check for fuses this time.
I have an Auto Enginuity scanner - but the laptop needs a power outlet. (I really don't want to have to admit towing my 7.3 home to finish trouble shooting this....)
Edit: I have a spare CPS in the center console, which will be plan B if the throttle and fuses all appear to be fine.
an intersection - fortunately managed to coast to a shady parking spot... walking distance from work.
Borrowed the throttle assembly from one of our 7.3 work trucks with no luck - but didn't realize I should also check fuses at the same time.
I'll walk back over after we're done for the day - spare throttle assembly in hand, and check for fuses this time.
I have an Auto Enginuity scanner - but the laptop needs a power outlet. (I really don't want to have to admit towing my 7.3 home to finish trouble shooting this....)
Edit: I have a spare CPS in the center console, which will be plan B if the throttle and fuses all appear to be fine.
#30
10-11-2013, 01:34 PM