Well, I recently purchased an F-350, and I wanted to provide the details for your consideration. Your comments are welcome as to how I did and what I missed, both good and bad. It's the first new vehicle I have ever purshaced in my life.

We've been using a 1987 Ford Bronco for the last 8 years. I treat my vehicles well, and this one has been no exception. I've had the engine and transmission rebuilt, the A/C hoses replaced and A/C recharged, and had it repainted. The only thing I couldn't do was to add doors. The person I purchased it from sold it because they had kids, and it was difficut to impossible to get the kids in/out with only two doors. We're considering adopting, and I understand the reason they sold it.

I'm employed by a Ford partner, and get an X-plan pin. So, after lurking on this site for 6 months and reading everything I could, we go off and look for a truck. We couldn't find what we wanted on the local lots. At this point in time (January - February, 2005), only Van Bortel was offering to do better than X-Plan price, and New York is ~2500 miles from Boise - a bit far for us to go.

So I start doing research on the local dealers. Two dealers here in Boise have great ratings with the BBB, and one is pretty poor - having had 6 disputes in 3 years. Since X-plan is the same at any dealer (no cost difference), dealer *qualilty* matters when buying. Meridian Ford and Dan Weibold Ford both had excellent ratings and both had good sales reps. It came down to a coin toss, and Dan Weibold won.

We met the sales rep, Doug Stump, and after spending about 15 hours looking at trucks and talking to him over the course of a month, we place an order for an F-350 lariat. We put $1000 down on a credit card as good faith, and then promptly paid the card balance back to $0. This is just around March 1st. 10 days later, I got the VIN and a projected delivery date of May 20, 2005. Then starts the waiting. Almost 3 months of waiting.

While waiting, The West Coast FTE plan from Suburban Ford is announced in April, 2005. Dang!! Oregon was well within driving range, and we would have considered the trip over with no second thoughts. Oh well, order has been placed and deposit down, no changing now.

Comes May, 2005, and the dealership is advertising free oil changes for life with every vehicle sold as part of a birthday celebration (and fighting for market share from GM, no doubt). Free oil changes for life *even* for diesels.

We know that the truck is in 'cause the sales rep calls and asks when we'd like to come by and see it. I tell him we can come over in 48 hours. We drive over to the dealership that evening and see it sitting behind the service area. It's 9PM, but still light out, owing to how far north we are and that we're less than one month from the longest day in the year. So from 9 PM to 10 PM we check it out. It looks bigger than we thought, and it's covered with bugs (no surprise there). Otherwise we're very happy with it. Seems to have all the right options - even the 18 inch rims with the unwanted Continental tires.

We go in on a Thursday at 3:00 PM. Truck is clean as a whistle and looking better than in the brochures.

As an engineer, I take the attitude that it's how someting works, not how it looks that matters. I've seen guys with trophy wives that can't do a lick of useful work and have no brains or abilities - except how to spend money. And I've seen gals with husbands that can't do a useful thing - except drink beer. So looking at a "pretty" truck does not get my heart going in the least.

As we learned here on the site, we did a full inspection using the new vehicle checklist provided on the site (thank you!). Sales rep starts to get a bit nervous. We spend 3 hours crawling in around, over and under, trying everything and looking at everything. We note two problems - Continental tires and a leaking steering damper. Every half hour, another sales rep would come by saying things like "what a great looking truck" or "how can I help you". We told 'em all we were fine and to let us just keep looking at it.

Finally, a bit after 6 PM we go back in and say that we will accept the truck if three issues are solved. They are:

1) wrong tires
2) leaky steering damper
3) throw in oil changes for life

Sales rep replies that steering damper is a warranty issue - we can take it to service for replacment - no problem. Wrong tires means he'll have to order in new tires, but we can drive it with the ones that are on there until new tires arrive (he doesn't know the situation with tires on F-350s). Sorry, oil changes for life are not available for X-plan buyers (he asked the sales manager), and that in any case, it's for vehicles purchased in May, and we placed our order back in March.

I tell him the wife and I need to discuss it, and we walk outside the dealership sales area and stand by the truck and start talking. My wife, Rochelle, has been married to me for 17 years and has great trust in my decisions. I'm an engineer and a business guy, and she as seen me negotiate for used vehicles before. We're talking by the truck for ten minutes, and the sales rep is getting nervous, watching us out by the truck, arms waving and just talking. We're discussing how to tell the dealer that the Continental tires are the tires that come with the truck, but aren't All Terrain. I don't want to spin around for 8 weeks on the issue, I just want $125 back for the option (all Terrain Tires) that weren't delivered.

All of a sudden the sales rep is walking up to us and says if the oil changes are a deal breaker, he'd see what he could do. I tell him that would help, and we'd be inside in a minute.

We go back in, and I ask to take it for a test drive. We get a dealer plate and take it for a sping on the freeway and over some local roads. It's about 6:30 PM, and we're getting hungry. We stop at a McDonalds for burgers and fries and head back to the dealership. We didn't eat in the vehicle (we don't own it yet).

We get back and put the food on the sales rep's desk (I'm sure he's getting hungry now, and it does smell good). We don't eat it yet. I explain that the tires cannot be "fixed" as there are no correct All Terrain tires to order for a F-350. The best they can do is refund our money for the undelivered option. I make it clear that I think it's Ford's problem, not theirs, and that I will not ding them on the blue oval rating over this issue. Likewise, the steering damper came from Ford, not from them, a warrant replacement is OK with us.

The Oil Changes for Life is a hang-up. We watched the small print on TV, and didn't see any exlusion for A/D/X/Z buyers. We can go home tonight, tape a copy with our VHS, and bring it in for all of us to watch tomorrow. Sales rep says he needs to go talk with the sales manager about the Oil Changes for Life and the tires. We say OK and start eating.

--I'm going to break here and post the conclusion as a follow up. Thanks for reading this far.

 

Sales rep comes back with Sales Manager in tow. Sales Manager says he's sorry about the tires, but what can he do? I said that if he wanted to walk out to the truck with me and show me the words "All Terrain" or "A/T" on the tires, I'd drop the issue. Otherwise it was aunn delivered option. And since there are no replacement tires to be had, all they can do is refund the money for that option. Regarding the Oil Changes for Life, I stated that I could not close the deal until this was resolved. I told him I know they close at 8:00 PM, and it's 7:00 PM right now, so maybe we should just go home and tape the commercial and come back later to discuss it.

Sales Manager says he needs to talk with the Owner - he'll be back.

5 minutes pass, and he comes back and says that he'll sell us the vehicle for the X-plan price, minus rebates, minus $125 for the tires and minus $529 for Oil Changes for Life. That's the best he can do. I told him it was just the right thing to do, and that he can consider the truck sold. Big smiles break out on everyone's face.

In a minute, Finance Manager is there with a portable computer. Once again, because of the numerous useful posting on the site, I know what is coming and what it means. He shows us a video on the PC about GAP, life insurance, etc. The video has a man talking about the "peace of mind" that comes with knowing that if he were to pass away, his new vehicle would be paid for.

After the video ends, Finance Manager asks if we want to have life insurance, GAP or other types of insurance? Do we want to have the 5 year protective slealant on the body and seats? I answer no to everything. Just sell us the vehicle and we'll be good. He looks up our credit history (it's very good) and says that we can get an extra $1000 in rebates if we finance through Ford at 6.99%. That 6.99% was his lowest rate he could offer us. I agree to finance through FMCC and take the additional $1000 rebate.

He then offers us an extended service plan through Ford. He says he can drop the interest rate to 6.49% and that we will only pay an extra $30.00 per month. Having exchanged e-mails with Polarbear, I know I'm going to get the Ford service plan through him after I complete the purchase of the truck. I pass on buying the service plan right then. Finance Manager is unhappy with me. It' late (7:30 PM) and he hasn't sold me anything in addition to the truck. He starts writing up the paperwork, passes it over and I review it. In looking at the numbers, it's not had $125 taken off for the missing All Terrain tires. It tell him it's in error, and that we need to get the Sales Manager back in here.

Sales Manager comes back in, I go through the math with him real quick, point out the missing $125. Sales Manager asks Finanace Manager to fix it and do the paperwork again. Finance guy is *really* grumpy at this point. We get new contracts printed out, and start signing. We agree to pay $5000 down, comprised of $2000 on a credit card (the most the dealership will let us put on the card - Hey it's airline miles!), a personal check for $2000, and $1000 in cash. Finance guy accepts ten $100 dollar bills folds them up and into the envelope they go. He asks where the cash came from, and I told him I'm really good with grocery coupons. He shakes his head and says "I believe it."

Out we go to the sales rep's desk, and the keys are there for us to pick up. It's now about 8:15PM, and the dealership is closed. As I'm going out the door with the Sales Rep, I ask if he thought it would be this hard to sell me a truck. He replies it's the hardest $100 comission hes ever earned - but also the most fun. He told us that he knew it would be a grind back in February when we were looking at trucks because we never got excited and took so much time looking at them back then. I told him that pride comes from doing hard things well, and he could take pride in knowing he did a great sales job to a difficult and well prepared customer. He smiled a *LOT* at that.

OK, so here's how the deal came out financially:

F-350 Lariat MSRP - $48,765
X-plan Price - $42,327.28
Rebates - $3000
Oil Changes for Life - $0 - No charge (would have been $529)
Missing A/T Tires - $125
Actual Price Paid - $39,202.28

$42327 - $125 - $3000 = $39202

We've already been to the wrecking yard and found the glove box light, under hood liner and wheel well liners that were deleted by Ford as a cost saving measure. All are in like new condition, and the wrecking yard guys have dealt with my wife a lot in past (had to keep that 1987 Bronco running), so they sold the items to her for $35.00. Surprised? Well, not many women go to the wrecking yards, so they cut her a good price to keep her coming back.

We still want to purchase a Ford ESP, but we'll wait a few months.

Now it's your turn. How did we do? Should we have made different choices or done things differently?

Let me close here by saying that if I did well, it's because of the informtion I got from reading all the fine posts everyone provided to me. I can't tell you how much I appreaciated all the knowledge and experience that has been shared here. In the coming years, I'll keep this vehicle serviceable because of all the experience and knowledge available for me to tap into.

Thank you.

My best to you,

-Kevin

 

i must say bravo hess sounds like a job well done congrats hope you like your new truck what am i sayin i know you will its a FORD

 

OK, OK- I'm confused on a couple of issues. There isn't a $1000 FMCC bonus for financing with Ford on a SD, but there is $3000 in rebate money.

A note on those tires- when you order 18" wheels or the FX4 package, what Ford (or Continental) call A/T tires aren't the wrong tires. Maybe wrong nomenclature, but the only tire available, and it's a required option with either of the other equipment items. when you order one, be aware (and prepared) for what the truck will come with.

Glad it worked out- enjoy your new truck!

 

From what i've read here on the boards myself i can't really see how it gets much better. Gratz on the new ride.

On a side note where do you find the dealers ratings at?

 

Hess,
Great Job, well documented story. sounds like you negoitiated quite well.
Phil

 

...darn glad you live in Idaho and not Rochester, NY!! You did VERY well, and keep spreading the word about FTE to your acquaintances.

But DON'T tell the other Ford dealers!!

 

I guess you did ok. I would have made them throw in free hamburgers for life too.

 

Here in Boise, we can go to review the online reports of the Better Business Bureau. The web site for those living in and around Boise is www . boise . bbb . org

The information they have on the web site is related to submitted customer complaints and how they were resolved by the dealership. Note that this information is not just restricted to dealers, but to all local businesses (carpet cleaners, restaurants, department stores, etc.). Here's some excerpts from local dealers, to give you an idea of the information I had available online (underlining for clarity was my doing, and not on the BBB websire):

DEALER 1: The Bureau processed 11 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. 3 of those were closed in the last 12 months. These complaints concerned repair or service issues and customer service issues. Of these complaints, 1 was closed as resolved, 7 were closed when the company addressed the disputed issues and exhibited a good faith effort to resolve the complaint and 3 were closed with no response from the company.

DEALER 2: This company participates in BBB CARE. This company participates in the Bureau's Membership Identification Program. This company has agreed to use special complaint handling procedures, including mediation and arbitration, if necessary, to resolve disputes. ... The Bureau processed 3 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. All of those were closed more than 12 months ago. These complaints concerned repair or service issues and credit or billing issues. Of these complaints and 1 was closed as resolved. 2 were closed when the company addressed the disputed issues and exhibited a good faith effort to resolve the complaint...

DEALER 3: The following data concerns complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's file was opened or over the last 36 months, whichever is less. This company has had no complaints. (Note: This dealer has had some complaints filed with the BBB in the past, just none in the past 36 months).

Starts to help you sort out the good dealers from the not so good ones. Note that just about everybody gets complaints, it's how the complaints are handled that matters.

My best to you,

-Kevin

 

Please note that I did reply to Polarbear through PM, and we discussed this and a couple of other issues. I didn't ignore is post.

My best to you,

-Kevin

 

Kevin,
Just wanted to let you know the deal I just sealed today.

2005 F350 4x4 CC Lariat - MSRP - $49,150
Dealer Discount - $6950
Ford Rebate - $2500
Home Depot Rebate - $500
Commercial Rebate - $300
American Quarter Horse Association - $500

Total Price Paid - $38,000 and then I got them to throw in a Duraliner in the bed.
They let me put $6,000 on my Credit Card also.

Where did you find the FTE checklist you mentioned? I couldn't find it but I am picking the truck up tonight.

Thanks

 

93stillstrong- that is a screamin' deal, just hope they don't double-check their math. If they're discounting $6950 off of MSRP, they've blown past invoice and into most of the holdback as well. By the time they throw the bedliner in it, they're below A plan pricing...but they don't get the A plan commission. By my math (I cheated and peeked at the invoice- there's only two trucks in the state with that MSRP), they're holding onto a net loser, profit wise.

Here's the $50 question- since we know dealers don't sell to lose money, where'd they make up the difference?

 

My guess would be that they are making it on points in financing, or at least hoping to.

 

That'd be my guess- I've seen net $1000 losers turn into profit home-runs by the time the deals got out of the finance department. There's a gazillion ways to make money on a car deal that has nothing to do with selling the car.

 

PolarBear,
You are making me feel better.
I love the truck so far, only 60 miles on it and I started at 4 miles.
I checked plenty of dealerships and they seemed to be giving me the most for the least $$. I was going to pay what they said was their best deal, then they took another $900 off an threw in the bedliner.
I had to laugh in the end, after the deal was done, cause I took one from Kevin/Hess above and asked for the "free oil changes for life". They just laughed, and I mentioned that other dealers are doing it.....

Anyway in the end they said I got to the bone with the deal and then they said not the bone, but into the marrow.
I was happy to hear that.