part 2 of my adventure of the day.

(73 engine, 390 2 barrel)

I have the distributor back in right , it starts up, runs fine. till it warms up.

Then unless you are idling, or sitting there revving the engine, you have to keep it choked to get any power, and it gasps and gags along the way.

open the choke and its like its running out of gas.... but it doesnt stall. Just no power and it starts running like the plugs are fouled.
(I checked, they aint)

this problem started this morning, before I tinkered with the distributor. You could say we went back in time to 5 AM this morning.

I changed the fuel filter, I figured it was clogged.
nope.
new plugs new wires...
nope.

Am I far off to think it may be the fuel pump?

or are worse and more complex things at work to ruin my day...

yesterday it was running fine, other than its usual miss from the dead plug on #4, but it has a new one, and while it is cold it runs 100% better than it used to.

I am gonna dig for my old electro fuel pump to tap in its line and see if it does any good to boost the fuel pressure.

as always, I value all your input... it would still be in the driveway if I haddnt found this site.

 

Just a shot in the dark but could it be as simple as a vacuum leak? Loss of manifold vacuum could cause the situation you describe.

 

it does have an intermittent "tic" on the right side of the engine. I was just messing with it a few minutes ago (yeah I'm in and out.. all day) I thought it was an exaust manifold leak, but it goes away sometimes.
and the #4 plug thats on that side was the dead one before I changed em, I bet it isnt firing again, because now it sounds like a miss. (I have duals, and the drivers side is smooth the passengers side kinda sounds rough with a miss)

it comes and goes, the noise. I just took it for a hard buzz down the street and it didnt choke up when it got warm.

now I am really puzzeled.

I checked all the vac lines, all are ok sealed and in place.

the intake head may have a leak... it would explain the noise.

I have a vaccume gauge in the truck it doesnt bounce or drift... what would it do if it had a leaky head gasket?

what is the idle vac reading suppose to be?

 

you put the distributor back in but did you set the timing.try setting the timing.10-15 degrees off will make a big difference

 

The "tic" sounds like a plug wire grounding out, which in turn would cause a "miss" since it is not firing the plug. Have you replaced all the wires?? They may look good, but the insulation breaks down and it will ground out.

 

I am going to get a timing light tomorrow to test it. For now I set it like I have always "set" the others... at an idle turn it till it runs smooth, try starting it a few times and turn it till it starts easy (as opposed to having the timing set to far ahead and it starts slow/tight)
Yes, I know a timing light is needed to do it right and I am off to get one tomorrow, but this "almost" way suffices to get em running "ok".
I replaced the plugs/wires, and they aint shorted...

After it had a choking fit the other day, i saw the fuel filter wasnt filling up do I put in a new fuel pump... hapy happy the filter is filling and it ran PERFECT after i put that in... satisfied, i walked away till today. I got in it to go fishing and ACK the thing is gagging and gasping again.

Note, l;ast timne I started it, it was running fine....

ok here is where it gets weird.... normally if you yank the PCV valve out and make a massive vaccum leak it stalls... right?
no not this one, it runs faster (idle).
you cant drive it or move it, it still has no power and is running rough. but it doesnt die.

thru all this, it starts on the first turn over, always. no problem. the problems start when you pop it in gear and try to go. after that it even idles rough.

still, it wont stall out....

my exaust gaskets are leaky but I doubt that would make all this fuss. It has to be a bigger problem.

choking it will make it idle a bit better, and give you a bit of power to go, but not enough to drive.

I think it still has a fuel problem, but its not the pump, or the filters they are new.

this "condition" came out of the blue, I drove it (running fine) to get a load of hay. Once I had the truck loaded (not much hay) I started out. I got 50 feet and THIS started.

I put a load on the engine and it freaked.
I put the new plugs/wires in, reset the distributor (another post) and once I got that right, it ran fine.....I even took it for a spin.
seemed ok...
when it warmed up it began doing the eacat same thing it was doing with the hay load.. (now empty).
I dont think I screwed up the distributor, becuase it is running like it was before I tinkered with it. (besides when I was done it ran fine for a short while, till it warmed up)

My mechanical prowess is limited, and this problem is my limit. A carb, I can rebuild if its that. My brother seems to think the valve lifters are sticking... out of my area, I dont have the tools/knowledge to do that job.

Whats bugging me now is why when you open a main vac line (remove pcv valve) the idle speeds up a bit and smooths out. Any other "normal" working engine I have done that to it loses vac and immediately DIES. I tried it to check on my nissan... it dies. I tried it in my Gf jeep... yank the PCV, cause a massive vac leak, it dies.

the 390 smooths out and idles better... grrrr.
I will update when I get a timing light tomorrow. ANY ideas, I will explore em ALL.

 

another bit of data to chew on.
I have a vac meter... (I admit, I dunno how to read it other than the normal # it should read and how steady the needle is)

in a vac port on the intake head, it read 30 at an idle, even though its idling rough it is steady on 30. hight idle it is also steady.

there is ONE vaccum port on the bottom of the carb, if I plug it into that one, it reads ZERO.
I dunno if that vac port on the carb should have any vac but theres what I found... Its been plugged off since I got it so I dunno what its for.
where IS it suppose to be connected to?

 

mm such a welth of information in these archives.... I'm amazed.
been reading.. walking out tinkering reading going back out, over and over...

Ive read the difference between those 2 vac ports, if I read right, the one on the carb doesnt have vac till it revs a bit (I checked and damn if thats not true..) and the dist vac advance is suppose to be on that one... good enough.

also read to test the vac advance... so I took the hose off the carb, left it on the distributor, poped the cap and sucked.
nothing. it doesnt move. infact its like sucking a straw, no restriction at all. blowing it has a similar effect, zilch.

I will assume this thing is shot.

I stood there with a trouble light after I put it back together, loosened the dist lock and advanced it a bit. it idles better. you can rev it up, it has a hessitation when you nail it but it will rev... and it idles well enogh for a big engine. I keep thinking, something that stars that easy, and idles relitivly (ok not so relitivly) smooth (ofter I advanced the timing a bit) cant have that much wrong with it.

I have one last question and I will stop talking

do I have to replace the whole distributor or is there some kit to rebuild the advance part...

and should I rebuild the carb while I am at it...
(ok, fair enogh thats 2 questions... sorry )

I will learn to fix this animal... one way or another.

(I just need a little bit of help from you fellas... Thanks!)

 

Ok... today I picked up a timing light, a new set of points and a condenser.

no one had a vac advance, which was 38 bucks special order (several places).
I did discover, I can buy a remanufactured distributor, with a new vac advance points and condenser, for 30 bucks.

After trying to make sense of this logic I opted for that, it has the advance thing, the points the condenser and, new springs on the weights. That I pick up tomorrow because I have to turnin the core. (22 bucks charge).

I took the new points and condenser home to do an experiment...
I put tm on, gapped the points, started it up..

runs pretty good!
I cleaned the wheel with the timing marks on it, rubbed yellow paintstick in the marks to make em show up good, started it up, zapped it with the timing light.

it wont idle unless its set to 20 BTDC.
I warmed it up real well, and I was able to get it to idle (roughly) at 13 BTDC or so.
took it for a spin,, wow, lots more power, idles better the hotter it gets.
it still has that hesitation now and then, and when you hit the gas, I hope the new vac advance on the new distributor will fix that???

That "tic" in the back by #4 I noticed, when i retard the timing and try to get it close to 10 BTDC, the tick grows LOUDER. When I advanced it to close to 15 BTDC it almost disapears. Any idea whats causing that?

I forgot about that oil pump rod again when I pulled the core out, and nabbed the thing a second before it dropped in the engine... again I know my adenalin glands work.

Just so I do this right the first time, HOW do you keep that thing stuck tight in the distributor bottom so it doesnt fallout every time you have to pull the core out?
I searched here, i read there should be a clip on it, but couldnt find anything spacific... i asked the parts guys about a clip they looked, couldnt find one, one chimed in he knows its suppose to be there... yada yada yada.

But they dont have nor can they get a clip... are they fulla BS or right?

I joked I would JB weld it in... then I started thinking thats not a bad idea.
(which of course means it is a very bad idea )

how do you guys keep the pump shaft in place tight and not lose it?

I know I ask a lot of questions.... be proud of me, i'm learning!

 

First, the oil pump shaft SHOULD have had a small wire clip on it that keeps it IN THE BLOCK!!! Some one(you or someone that had the dizzy out in the past) jerked it up and pulled the shaft out and in the process pull the clip off and it fell in the pan. Now with out pulling the pan, pump and re-installing the shaft WITH the clip from the bottom you will always have to fight with it. Sorry no good news here.

As for idle problems, seems maybe since you can unplug your PCV and it idles BETTER that your carb is VERY rich. While you unplug your PCV it allows MORE air into engine it is LEANING it out and thus smoothing it out. When it is RICH it is probably chugging and idling rough. I think some carb work is in order?

I kinda got lost in all the additions and what you have accomplished so far. I think you got a new dizzy put in(that's good, it should be in good working order). A new fuel pump was also installed, that's good. I think the carb is the next thing to approach.

 

You might have a bunch of problems.

First, when you mess with timing, you have to adjust the idle (butterfly) screw on the carb. Retarding the timing will lower the idle, so you have to raise it. It could be that it will idle at 10 degrees if you crank in on the screw, opening up the butterflies.

If the advance is blown, chances are someone else cranked up the timing to make up for the lack of vacuum advance and adjusted the idle back down (advancing timing will bring up the idle).

Also, your distributor might be shot. Check the point gap pushing and pulling on the dizzy shaft towards and away from the points. Watch how much the point gap changes by doing that. That will throw the "dwell" (number of degrees that the points are open or closed, can't remember) out while driving and cause all sorts of problems, like timing jumping around all over the place. Bad news is a "rebuilt" dizzy usually hasn't had the upper bushing replaced and might be as loose as your existing one.

Let us know what you find... interesting thread.

art k.

 

more good advice... what would I do without ya'all?

ok I got the new dist. before I traded over the old one I did annoy the sales guy by nit picking the new one.

I can see, by comparison, the lobes that lift the points apart (looks like an octagon) on the old one were VERY worn away. the new one's high spots are much sharper and well defined.
I also wiggles the shaft every which way, and the old one again was loose. the new one seems very snug and tight.
the new one has new wieghts and springs, or so the guy said on the phome when I ask, and insisted to know what new parts were in this "reconditioned part".

good thing I was traded off to 2 women clerks, they were very patient and kinda saw the pogic in my questioning.. the guys were "what difference does it make?"
well, it does make a difference.

seems like I got a good deal. I am not installing it till i get the riddle of the pump shaft solved.

OK.. now the pump shaft. no clip for the distributor end, gotcha. So lets re engineer the wheel.

this distributor is a cheap part, I mean whjat can you buy for 30 bucks? So add to that this reasoning;
the oil pressure is good, and the oil pan doesnt have any leaks and is clean. I dont wanna mess with the pan/gasket/pump at this time.

So, I have to make the shaft stay put in the distributor, as I will be pulling it in and out a few times to get it where I need it.

1st question is, is there any forseeable harm in permenently sticking that thing in the dist? it was stuck in there to begin with pretty tight before I took it out and cleaned it.
I'm not concerend with "if the shaft snaps" and needs replaced if that happens a new distributor will be a minor expense.

how to keep it stuck in there, for the rest of the distributors usefull life.
(btw, advanced sells the shafts for 6 bucks, no clips included)

here are my ideas, let me know if you think any are good ones.

a] brazing. If I clean degrease and braze the bugger in there, it would stay put. I ask the guy who showed me to braze and he said he has rods that can braze steel to stainless or whatever that socket is made out of it looks stainless. Also he told me (true, i cant say) IF I want it out all that needs done is heat it up and let it melt the brazeing and take it out.
makes good sense to me, which sacres me a little.
B] JB weld. I like JB, but I dunno if it can take the exposure to hot oil all the time without coming loose.
C] drill a tiny hole all the way thru and stick a tiny cotter key thru thre socket and shaft. I dunno if this will get in anythings way in there.
D] a spot weld. I think too much heat, and if ithe sockets staineless its not possible.
E] An alan head set screw driled& tapped into the socket. this wasnrt my idea, my neighbor is a machinist who dreamed that up, he had tiny taps and the stuff to do it. the advantage to this is, nothihg sticking out (like the cotter pin idea) and its removeable at will.

I ran out of ideas... whatcha think?

 

as for the carb running rich, that could very well be. I dont see an excess of soot in my tailpipe though. once I get it running back right i will yank the plugs and see how they are burning.

that will be another thread on adjusting an autolite 2100 carb basics. It gets good squirts when I hit move the throttle so my accel pump seems to be ok (maybe to ok?)

a rebuild kit may be in order since I am sure this one hasnt been rebuilt in dogs ages.

it has yellow traces of paintstick on it and that tells me someone got it off a junk at somepoint. I may just blow the bank on a good carb new. Till then i am keeping my salvage eyeballs open for one.

with an adapter plate, I read I can make a 4 B fit my 2 B intake IF I trip over a good quality 4 barrel carb thats to good to pass up.
Searching here I read not many downsides to a 4 to 2 adapter for general driving.

then if I trip over a 4barrel intake, hey, I have a...
oh you get the picture.
I'd be happy with a rebuild kit for what I have i aint that fussy.
opertunistic but not fussy.

 

The only thing I can think of is if the oil pump and dizzy are not in a perfectly straight line (and I'll bet they are not without even checking), you need some "wobble room" for the shaft. That is, it can make up for the misalignment. Anything that anchors the shaft to the gear is going to be an eventual failure.

I'd stick with making sure the shaft is put into the oil pump with grease on the end, and the dizzy end is totally clean and dry (or very VERY lightly oiled). That way, the shaft is almost always going to stick in the oil pump.

 

wobble.... I didnt think of that

how about, make sure its all nice and clean and smear a thin coat of permatex on it? (the copper kind)
it would still be a little wobbly on one end at least, and not rock tight on the other.

as long as it doesnt fall out while I am adjusting it putting it in, i just wont yank it out again unless I absolutely have to.

I dont think my adenalin glands can take another shock...