just turn the fuel up a bit and you can get a bit of extra power without spending anything,,,,Turn it up alot and you can make alot of extra power but if you drive it like an animal you are going to break something. A fuel adjustment costs nothing and if you don't like it you can allways turn it back. But I wouldn't pay $2500 for a 15 year old pickup let alone spend $2500 to put a turbo on one

 

First off I do understand english. I understand that you have your opinion and I have mine. I'm not trying to **** anybody off. I was planning on buying the Banks setup when I have the money. Are the 7.3 N/A engines weak? You say that you had stress cracks on the IDI 7.3 at about 225 hp. Banks claims up to an 84 hp gain(to 260) and a 143 lb-ft gain (up to 503) on a 6.9 or 7.3 engine. Is Banks wrong about their claims or are they setting people up to really shorten their engines life. My opinion is that if my pickup is worth $4000, and a powersroke is anywhere from $15,000 all the way up to $40,000, I have a little room to spend money on gaining power. The rest of the pickup is great and wouldn't trade for anything.
P.S. Joe Diesel, how will turning up the fuel rate work at high elevation (4500 ft). Will I still get good gains out of it. I am still unsure about it but also curious. Thanks

 

At 4500 feet you will see a gain but you are probably going to see a bit more black smoke. Try going up a bit at a time like 60 degrees of a turn (1 flat) and see how bad it smokes. All n/a diesels are going to smoke a bit when you are taking off or pulling a hill. Back in the day we used to put a small mirror on the trucks so the driver could see the stack and know when he was pushing it a little too hard lol but you don't find good drivers like that anymore. your best bet is to find a good hill and put some load in the truck and use that same hill and same load to test the truck every time you change the fuel setting. I had a 6.9 that would run about the same as another truck the same size that had a DT466 in it so I guess it was putting out like 225 or so because the old n/a DT466's were like 225hp and I never blew it up. Just keep an eye on your tempatures and stuff and try and put a pyrometer (egt) on the truck before you start so you have something to compair readings with

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Mar-02 AT 07:11 PM (EST)]Anybody with money can go out and buy a new Powerstroke. I've been tempted myself and would have no trouble affording it. Satisfying? Sure, until something newer comes along. It's far more challenging and rewarding to keep my old '91 IDI looking and running showroom-new. Few people have the appreciation or passion for taking something old and making it new again; those who don't will probably never understand those of us who do. Expensive? Yes. Logical? No.

 

Joe Diesel, I'm still trying to figure this out so stick with me. You said that black smoke is not unburned fuel so why is it that when I pull a loaded trailer up a hill and give it full throttle it smokes like hell. I always run it about 2800-3000 rpms on steep hills in 3rd loaded, unless it will pull 4th. Anyway with the throttle wide open it smokes real bad but let off the throttle untill it stops smoking and it will pull just as hard. Not trying to argue but that smoke has to be unburned fuel. Its like watching the exhaust on equipment to know when an air filter has not been changed, it will be making alot of black smoke.

 

>Joe Diesel, I'm still trying to figure this out so stick
>with me. You said that black smoke is not unburned fuel so
>why is it that when I pull a loaded trailer up a hill and
>give it full throttle it smokes like hell. I always run it
>about 2800-3000 rpms on steep hills in 3rd loaded, unless it
>will pull 4th. Anyway with the throttle wide open it smokes
>real bad but let off the throttle untill it stops smoking
>and it will pull just as hard.

O.K. rjmcgee, I'm not JoeDiesel, but I'm going to reply on his behalf. Then he can add to this if needed. Black smoke is indeed not unburned fuel. White smoke is unburned, or more accurately, partially burned fuel. Black smoke is so common in naturaly aspirated diesel engines because of a real genuine "lack of air" for lack of a better term. As well as a lack of efficient ignition. Joe(diesel) as well as The Diesel Dude, They have mentioned that merely adding a turbo will not increase power. That just brings us to the other side of the spectrum. We now have too much air, and not enough fuel to do anything with it. Since these engines were not designed in this manner, you could potentially destroy them very quickly.
The stoichiometric air/fuel ratio does not even have a chance in these engines, so you get smoke. This is why diesel technology has had to advance so rapidly.(EPA, CAFE standards,etc.) BUT, the smoke and clatter are some of the traits that make older diesels so COOL! Stoichiometric ratio is the exact amount of two or more substances that will enable a chemical reaction with none of the individual reactive substances left over. See the thread dealing with stoich ratio that JoeDiesel posted here. It sort of ties in with the subject of N/A IDI engines that we are discussing here. Having said that, I'll address your question about smoke while pulling. Once peak torque has been achieved, you will not make any more power by giving it more fuel. You will just make more visible hydrocarbons(SMOKE) Now I am not real familiar with 6.9 litre's, so I don't know what the torque rise is for those engines. But basically you are overfueling it. JoeDiesel mentioned this earlier as well when he talked about placing a mirror so you can see the smoke at the tailpipe. So, the bottom line is that an engine makes power to a certain point, after that it makes smoke and noise if you keep your foot in them. Computer controlled engines constantly make adjustments to counteract the above mentioned things, so that's why they don't seem so temperamental. Computers are smarter than the operator in this case!

Not trying to argue but that
>smoke has to be unburned fuel. Its like watching the exhaust
>on equipment to know when an air filter has not been
>changed, it will be making alot of black smoke.

I'm not trying to argue either.(so don't get cross!):7, but same principle as before: Not enough air =Black smoke OR Too much fuel =Black smoke. Cold engine, or bad injector, or scored piston/liner or many other mechanical calamaties =White to bluish grey smoke. Hope this helps. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I just like to have fun helping folks here at FTE!

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-Mar-02 AT 03:51 AM (EST)]rjmcgee I think at 4500' you may be at the limit for fuel already especially if it is a warm day. I am going to have to crack the books to see just what the mas per cubic foot of air is at that elevation. It would help to know where in the world you are. most engine manufacturers rate their engines on a standard day which is 60 F and 29.92" of mercury but I forget the humidity. I am pretty sure at that temp pressure and 0% humidity air has a mass of .077 pounds to the cubic foot and diesel fuel has a specific gravity of .87. I may be wrong here I have to hit the books, But basicly you want to mix them 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel by mass. I better hit the books though before I give you guys wrong info. Hey btw can any of you guys hook me up with the specs fot the N/A 6.9 and 7.3 hp and torque and at what rpm would help alot also if anyone has the fuel settings for this standyne pump on those 2 engines that would help too. But at 4500 rjmcgee the air may be a bit thin if you can tell me what the barometric pressure is there and the temp and humidity I may be able to help you more

 

Banks is not going to market aftermarket equipment designed to increase your power if it is going to damage the engine. The 7.3L IDI engine is strong enough to handle the extra power as long as you are not pulling a heavy trailer 100% of the time with the pedal to the metal. The Diesel Dude Diesel essentially covered this subject pretty well but I wouldn't turn the pump up as much as he says. If you are getting a lot of black smoke now under a heavy load, you may already have too much fuel. If you want to try some more fuel (naturally asperated) turn it 30 degrees of rotation (make a note of how much you have turned it so you can turn it back if you need to). I would only go 1 complete flat (60 degrees of rotation) if you install the turbo. The turbo will be most benificial to you in high altitude areas. The earlier remark about the cracked main bearing webs was refering to running this engine (7.3L IDI) on an engine dyno flat out for long periods of time (probably 50 or 100 hours) at 225 HP. The engine doesn't run that way in the truck, consequently you can boost the power level further than the factory was willing to go because we had exhaust emission levels we had to stay below and warranty costs to consider. The factory turbo boosted the HP from 185 @ 3300 RPM to 190 @ 3100 RPM and peak torque from 345 to 425 @ 2000 RPM. I can't remember if the factory turbo set-up had the same compression ratio as the N/A or not.

 

Thanks guys. I am in eastern Oregon. Tempatures range anywhere from 10 to 50 degrees in the winter and up to 80 to 90 degrees in the summer. What you say makes good sense and I see where I was wrong. It does have more power on a cool morning than on a hot afternoon. Thanks for the education and sorry for getting so defensive. Didn't think about the white smoke but we always watch that if something won't start. I have always heard that if you get white smoke you have fuel. Once again thanks for the info and sorry if I got anybody mad.
P.S. Am always leary about peoples sugestions if I don't know them, but you guys know your stuff. Had a guy tell me once that you could make any engine a diesel by putting diesel heads on it

 

Sorry rjmcgee I am so used to only talking to local people I forget that the people I am talking to on these boards just might be anywhere in the world. Elevation and temp really play a big part in how much you can get out of a n/a engine. I am on the east coast so I really don't figure on lower atmospheric density unless I am talking about aircraft

 

Would a Turbo hurt an 87 diesel? I mean because most likely it has a lot of miles on it

 

NOPE!
This is a 6-year-old post so there's some 6-year-old thinking.
I'm not sure if any of these guys are even on here anymore?

Welcome to the site if somebody hasn't done it already.

You have probably the BEST year of the IDI. It has ALL of the 6.9L upgrades and the newer glow plug system.
If you put a Banks, Hypermax or (my favorite) ATS system on your truck you'll be VERY HAPPY with the results.
I would DEFINITELY get a wastegate turbo system.
Your motor will handle the amounts of boost you'll get out of a "stock" system. I don't know how many miles are on your truck but my Turbo IDI has 371K on it right now and it runs GREAT. It's had a turbo on it it's entire life!
The 7.3 Turbo has some valve train advantages as well as some piston, rod and pin upgrades but it's biggest advantage is the larger head bolts.
Your 6.9L has a much better block though. The rod and pin upgrades are fairly inconsequential in the turbo motor.
If you ever want to "build" a motor it's best to start with yours and add the 7.3L valve train components to it and some head studs.
GET A TURBO!

 

I don't remember those guys.

To bad I can't show them and tell them about my engine and what we are doing now.

I have actually seen 87 engines that had 7.3 rockers from the factory, but turbo 7.3 valves are better than what any of the 6.9's had.

I need to see if any of those guys are still here.
Looks like they have been gone since at least 2003, boy have times changed in here.

Can you give me any idea how many miles are on the 87 engine?

 

i have an 87 with a c6 and 6.9 the motor has anywhere from 300,000 pluss on it. odometer rolled a few times. the motor is all stock. and i turned the fuel up 3 flats. just driving it will some smoke getting on it. if i hook to my gooseneck livestock trailer it. and then get on it you cant see the road behind you im the only one that drives it so i know how it gets drove. turning the fuel up that much didnt hurt my fuel milager hardly at all it still gets about the same. but the winds been blowing hard here so i have not really been able to see what it gets driving easy.

 

LOL!! I didn't even notice the dates on this thread! I just bought my 6.9 about a month ago. It has 247,000 miles on it. I did have some problems at start up, but new glow plugs ARE a good thing. I was just wondering about a turbo because my truck could be called many things, but fast or even peppy is not one of them...