Yes, I've thoroughly followed the discussion, and it contains no more hard facts than the one.

1) Where is a dyno test comparison of the AFE vs. the Tymar under both hot summer and cooler winter conditions?
There is none.

2) Gale Banks has stated that any benefits of lower restriction are partially nullified if the intake takes in hot underhood air. The Banks products use a snorkel to the outside for their air intake for that reason. I respect Banks' methodical testing and engineering expertise. Are you claiming that what he says is wrong?

3) Where are the comparisons of exhaust gas temps between trucks using the AFE and Tymar intakes?
There are none.
My personal OPINION is that if you raise the temperature of the incoming air 75 degrees, not only is it less dense, but your EGTs will also go up a proportional amount. That's why there's intercoolers on turbocharged engines. In my humble OPINION, the Tymar is an "anti-intercooler".

The SAE uses SPECIFIC numbers, pressure, temperature, humidity to calculate horsepower vs. incoming air temperature.
Check out this web site:
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_abs.htm

I've entered some numbers for a typical summer day- 90 degrees outside air temperature, 30 inches of barometric pressure and 50% humidity. Then I changed the incoming air charge temperature to 140 degrees, typical of underhood temps in city driving, adjacent radiator blowing 180 degree air into the engine bay, with the A/C on. You LOSE 13.2% power! It is my opinion that Gale Banks is absolutely correct- You're way better off to keep the incoming air as cool as possible.

A Ducati motorcycle club HAS paid an independent lab to do SAE filtration tests of the oiled media filters (K&N/AFE) vs. the OE-style Fram paper filters. The well-documented independent tests demonstrated that oiled media was better than the OE paper filter. The AFE-K&N media clearly demonstrated superior air cleaning ability and less restriction.
http://ducatigarage.netfirms.com/filtertest.html

>It will lay to rest any doubts about an open element
>system.

Absolutely not. WHERE are the independent tests and comparisons? All I've seen is theory and opinion.

One more time: WHERE are the comparative test results? Show me!

> Plenty of Tymar testimonials

All subjective opinion, NO ONE has tried BOTH filters and documented their comparative results- HP, torque or EGT. All I've seen is "...I've got the XXX filter and I really like it...Feels like I've got a lot more HP and torque ...really makes the engine come alive...Better throttle response...I can really hear the turbo sing now..." However, BOTH the AFE and the Tymar crowd say the same thing.

As it's been said, opinions are like buttholes, everyone's got one, and you're right, there's been plenty of opinion posted on the internet.

WHERE are the comparative, independent tests?

Has even Tymar paid ANYONE for dyno time and compared both types of filters, particularly in hot weather, with the A/C on, sun beating down and underhood temps at a roasting 140 degrees? NO.

WHERE are the objective test results..?

>can't even mention the words air filter without 20 people
>bringing up the Tymar.

Irrelavent.

>There is also no need to move the battery with the Tymar
>setup,

I stand corrected. I was under the impression that some PSD models required the relocation of the driver's side battery.

> I personally
>like the throw away filters rather than reusable.

Again, that's a matter of opinion. I don't mind washing and re-oiling the K&N and AFE filters I currently have installed on my trucks. Some people apparently do and would prefer to use disposable filters. I don't fault anyone for that decision, and if that's the case, someone should definitely go with the Tymar. But please don't claim the Tymar offers better performance than the AFE under all operating conditions and seasons of the year without having the facts to back it up.
Thank you.

 

Well, I run old fashioned Motorcraft paper filters in my PSD X and do not plan to change to K&N, Tymar or AFE.

I just remember my father always making a remark that his car ran better in the morning when it was cool than it did in the heat of the afternoon. Cool damp mornings were best.

Just makes sense to me that cooler intake air is denser with more O2 and should give you more power.

 

Here's alittle Racecar backing of the cool air theory...
The last time i raced the Nova , it went a best of 9.90 at 140mph , at 11:30am and the outside temp was around 60. My second pass was a 10.20 at 134mph, and this was at 2pm, temp was around 70 now. The last pass of the day was at 3:30pm, 85 outside, and was a 10.90 at 123mph. What does all this mean ?? This clearly shows how much heat/hot air Vs. Cool air makes in power. My car ran allot better when it was 60 outside rather than when it was 85. I know the same goes with a PSD truck, prob. even more so with the turbo and all.

I didn't mean to start a war or anything , just wanted to see what people's opinions are.In my opinion , it seems as if the AFE unit would make more sense(thats why i bought one) because it uses colder air from outside the engine compartment - Vs the TYMAR .

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-Jan-03 AT 02:12 PM (EST)]The previous discussions about the Tymar proved no negative effects from taking in air under the hood. That's what I remember from discussions. If you are really hesitant to run an open element air filter, you can either modify the stock air box for the new filter or just keep a stock air filter setup.

 

>The previous discussions about the Tymar proved no negative
>effects from taking in air under the hood. That's what I
>remember from discussions at the diesel stop.

What proof? No one has documented anything. No one has done an A-B filter comparison. No one has posted pictures of a dyno print out.

If there are truly, honestly no negative effects from taking in hot engine bay air, WHY do manufacturers go through all the trouble of providing outside air intakes and ducts? Why do they put intercoolers on turbocharged engines?

It has been proven without question that engine performance deteriorates as intake air temperature rises and that on a diesel, EGTs rise as well. How can it be claimed by the Tymar fans that all of a sudden it doesn't matter?

With all due respect, show-some-proof that I'm wrong, that the Tymar provides better engine performance and lower EGTs than the AFE under all operating conditions.

Thank you.

 

COOL AIR GOOD


hot air bad

Race cars like cold so i give my psd cold air.

 

Amen brother.

Especially around August, here in Texas.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Jan-03 AT 00:08 AM (EST)]There have been no negative test results for the Tymar either. If you have some information, share it with us. As far as actual filtering, the Donaldson filter is about as good as they get. The reason I don't like the resuable filters is that there is a greater risk of damaging the filter when cleaning it. It's also a pain, and I don't care to do it. The fact that so many power stroke owners swear by the Tymar should be evidence enough that it is a good product.

If you want a side by side comparison, do it yourself. I know on my 1997 power stroke there is no outside ductwork leading to the air intake, just an opening in the air box which sits behind the driver's side battery. I have seen people who opted for the Tymar setup that sheilded the air filter from the engine with some sort of plastic cutout. Surely this is better than the 1997 stock setup which also takes in the same hot engine air.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Jan-03 AT 10:14 AM (EST)]I started this post to see what people's opinions were - and I guess i got them

I currently have a AFE setup on my truck now , but wanted to hear some facts on the TYMAR , becasue i hear so much about it. I still dont like the idea of sucking in underhood hot air that comes with the tymar. I agree with how someone said , Ford didnt spend extra cash to make all that ducting to grab cooler air for no reason...All cars , Diesel or not , benefit from cooler air. Cooler air - more dense - more can pack in the cylinders = more power. I just want to hear from more TYMAR owners why they think the underhood temp of the air doesnt matter to their trucks, but it does make a difference in every other interal combustion motor in the world...

Keep the opinions comming..........

 

I missed the part about hot air not being a negative ...

I don't think we have any good measurable data that indicates whether the filtering/less restriction of a Tymar is overcome by any powerloss due to increased (assumption) intake temps. I had a K&N filter up until 2 weeks ago when I decided to try the Tymar. Things I noticed were the turbo spooling quicker, the turbo coming up to the same boost levels without as much foot in throttle, and the tune of the turbo changed slightly.

All that said, its also the middle of winter and there isn't any shortage of cold air. If I notice a power loss come warmer weather I will probably build a custom snorkel/shroud to get cooler air to the intake.

Like I said above one of the decision factors for me was that I don't want to take the time to clean, re-oil, etc. the K&N and so far I like the Tymar.

 

 

>>>Whats the price on the Tymar system? I'd like to get my
>>>hands on one.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Will-
>>Will, I believe you can get the whole set up for les than
>>$200. You have to either modify your existing battery/intake
>>box, or swap it to a new battery tray. Either way, Dale can
>>set you up with whatever you need. He can even powder coat
>>your plumbing if you want, or you can just polish the
>>aluminum.
>>
>
>
>Parts for the Tymar total $109.09 with one filter.
>Additional filters are $22.93. Black powder coating is $8.

Well, it IS under $200.00. I spoke to Dale, but just forgot the actual price. But, Will will be even more happy knowing that it is even less expensive than I thought.....

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-Jan-03 AT 03:10 PM (EST)]

Tymar Intake





This an intake from gts motorsports. im not sure if you can buy the aluminum box around it or not(just have the picture). He says that there is a 30-40 degree diff in having the aluminum housing and not having it.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 07:03 PM (EST)]Looks like that aluminum thing would keep some of the heat out

 

>Looks like that aluminum thing would keep some of the heat
>out

It also looks like it would restrict the air flow. Whether it's getting hot or cold air, the Tymar gets air at all times. Some of the other setups work well when at a cruising speed and the air is forced into the intake, but the Tymar can take air from all directions at all times. I'm willing to bet that during normal driving the air temp isn't much different between the Tymar and the competition. Fresh air is rushing in the front of the truck, and I'm sure this is what the Tymar would pick up. I will admit that driving around town you would be likely to take in warmer air if you do a lot of sitting in traffic, but then performance isn't important at a red light.