The condensor is a capacitor: it is there to stop the points from arcing when they open (think spark arrestor)... when the condensor fails & goes open circuit, your points burn out in short order.

Not applicable to our model range of vehicles which use Hall Effect sensors.

I'm lucky in the fact that I have bunches of electronic test gear- I even got to the stage that I was driving around with a 4 channel scope (powered by my inverter) scoping all sorts of sensors.

As for timing, anyone knows you can retard it way back & get it to fart & run, the slowly start advancing it. I can do mine by ear far better than some of the factory trained monkeys.

I wish the original thread starter would post back & let us know what transpired.

 

I wanted to clarify that I was talking about the Saturn V rocket, not the car, in relating Internal Combustion Engine Theory and Operation all going back to the same source, the Diesel brothers, the Dusseldorfs, and that British guy whose name I forget.

For what it's worth, our van began going haywire last July on the hottest day of the year, over 100 degrees, while in cruise control, going through the Chicamauga Battlefield Parkway.

Today I bought the noid light kit, to check the injectors, but I doubt that they are bad.

I must add that because of another Ford defect, O2 sensors, and others, are going to continue to go bad!

After the exhaust manifold, at the other end of the catalytic converter, there is a factory welded and angled pipe of about 15 degrees or so, maybe less - maybe more as I'm going from memory, which hangs from a shock-mount support bracket that is, you got it, welded to the adjoining exhaust pipe before the muffler.

Okay, so what's the big deal about that? You asked!

Well, this whole rig causes this welded joint to bounce up and down, over, and over, and over again, over ten years or more, or so, or whatever. So?

So - when you 'flex' a weldment enough times, first it cracks, and then it breaks, just like any other piece of steel that is bent back and forth enough times and for a long enough period.

In aircraft it's called 'fracturing.'

In cars it's called breaking or broken!

When this weldment breaks, the exhaust system opens between the catalytic converter and the muffler, yet the heavier steel used in the catalytic converter and the shock mount bracket restrain the break from completely separating the pipes.

You may begin to hear the 'broken muffler pipe sounds' at about the time the fracture completes its circular path around the catalytic converter's end-piece which is at that weird 15 degrees, or so, angle.

But by the time you've heard it, the O2 sensor and every other computer feedback control sensor and system have completely misdiagnosed the cause of the problem, have tried to correct for everything from overly rich fuel to bad spark, bad fuel pumps, and so on, until the entire pseudo-brain computer controlled automotive system has thrown the entire ignition, fuel, and compression system so far out of whack that no one can understand what is wrong with your van or truck.

And all because the brainiacs up in Detroit forgot something very simple: there is a reason for everything in troubleshooting a cause and effect problem.

It was at the time that this weldment broke that everything had already been replaced, including the O2 sensor, MAP sensor, and manifold coolant temperature sensor.

Unfortunately, not one A.C.E. certified smarty thought to consider why they went bad to begin with.

It was not on the "Multiple Choice" list of what to look for when something goes wrong with your car, so, they just couldn't "think"
of it.

So now, the first thing you have to do is check that catalytic converter weldment.

I said there were more than two problems going on here. I bought a welder a couple of months ago and began the repair of the weldment. I'll complete it when I have a warm place to do it!

I'm placing my bets on it being a combination of the coil, the condensor, definitely caused by the stupid timing adjustments made by the computer because of the catalytic converter tail pipe weldment fracture, and maybe a few other tune up components made to go bad by this 'wired wrong' computer brain called an ECA by the neuromechanics up in Saginaw and Flint, Michigan, of course!


The Dr.

 

Originally posted by The_Dr.


.......

You may begin to hear the 'broken muffler pipe sounds' at about the time the fracture completes its circular path around the catalytic converter's end-piece which is at that weird 15 degrees, or so, angle.

But by the time you've heard it, the O2 sensor and every other computer feedback control sensor and system have completely misdiagnosed the cause of the problem, have tried to correct for everything from overly rich fuel to bad spark, bad fuel pumps, and so on, until the entire pseudo-brain computer controlled automotive system has thrown the entire ignition, fuel, and compression system so far out of whack that no one can understand what is wrong with your van or truck.

Ah, the beauty of dual O2 sensors (like in my Z28) is that you can see when the computer is trying to lean out one bank or enrich the other.

And all because the brainiacs up in Detroit forgot something very simple: there is a reason for everything in troubleshooting a cause and effect problem.

It was at the time that this weldment broke that everything had already been replaced, including the O2 sensor, MAP sensor, and manifold coolant temperature sensor.

Unfortunately, not one A.C.E. certified smarty thought to consider why they went bad to begin with.

Isn't there a diagnostic port that allows you to see what the computer is doing "real time"? I have a device in my car called a Scanmaster that monitors over 20 engine functions via the car's computer ODB1 port. It includes O2 readings, injector duty cycles, coolant temp, rpm, ignition timing, etc.


It was not on the "Multiple Choice" list of what to look for when something goes wrong with your car, so, they just couldn't "think"
of it.

So now, the first thing you have to do is check that catalytic converter weldment.

I said there were more than two problems going on here. I bought a welder a couple of months ago and began the repair of the weldment. I'll complete it when I have a warm place to do it!

I'm placing my bets on it being a combination of the coil, the condensor, definitely caused by the stupid timing adjustments made by the computer because of the catalytic converter tail pipe weldment fracture, and maybe a few other tune up components made to go bad by this 'wired wrong' computer brain called an ECA by the neuromechanics up in Saginaw and Flint, Michigan, of course!
The Dr.

I'm not yet convinced that a crack in the tailpipe AFTER the catalytic converter would cause all of those problems. Is the O2 sensor located after the CC? There should be enough back pressure at the restrictive CC that sucking air further downstream shouldn't have any effect of the O2 sensor (unless the O2 sensor is located downstream of the CC.)

 

I mounted my O2 sensor in the manifold, Ford provided a spare mounting point there, which is not susepctible to flexing.

This post was supposed to help the girl whose van would quit, and I'm afraid to see the point in yours, although I do read them thoroughly.

 

Perhaps I should point out all I have done already. I have had both in tank fuel pumps rplaced and filters. I have had new pluggs and wires put on. I replaced the brain box because the airconditioner was dripping water onto it and shorted it out. I have replaced the hoses. I have replaced the sensors, o2 , map, heat and sending. All of this was necessary, but now I still have a problem. I think it needs a new distributor and rotor, I see some charing on the cap. now where is the coil? I can't seem to find it. I have also found a wrecked van with the fuel tank selector value on it for 25 bucks and from what you all are saying I should buy it just in case. Should I go ahead and replace the icm when I do the distributor? Im just about to pull my hair out on this. I can smell flooding when I let the engine run so I am pretty sure something is causing it. Would that be the icm. Frankly give me an old truck with a straight v-8 and none of this new fangled crap and I would be happy. I am lost with all of this electronic stuff. The darnedest thing is the engine light never comes on when all this dying happens, so I dont think it would throw any code it if I hooked it up to the machine. About this hair dryer thing how exactly do I do that? Please help this girl's pockets are getting empty.

 

Did you try pulling that connector to the 2nd temperature sender: I mentioned that a few posts up.

The coil is on the left hand side of the engine, with the doghouse off.

 

I am going to get the weld fix because I think it started a lot of the problem. Knightmayre thanks for the picture that really helps a lot I may eventually have to fix the 02 sensor too so knightmayre keep checking as I would like to know more about the other location for it. I am going to get that fuel selector valve off that wreck just in case I need it. They are expensive. Some days I have ideas of where to put this van Of course this is from a girl who threw a dash board of a new car across a dealership show room after it fell in her lap while driving. I am also am an ear girl who does more by listing to an engine than with all the diagnostic electrical crap. I gueass I picked it up by dating stock car mechanics and drivers. I can sure tell when there is something is wrong by listening, and also by driving the vehicle too. I appreciate all the help and I am not going to let this van beat me.

 

First, it would be nice if there were a "Login and Reply" button.

I'll try to reply without going through the machinations of trying to reply, only to be told I need to log in, only to be told I need to find the thread and post to reply to again, taking about an hour going nowhere [hmmmm, that sounds like my van!]

If this post works, read the next reply.

 

Okay, cookies apparently have stored everything I didn't want them to on this computer, but no matter.

I confirmed that the beginnings of alleyshadit's problem is actually traced back to the weird weld on the catalytic converter. The van from work also has the same exhaust leak where all of these problems began, and, it has exactly the same problem. But, it only has one fuel tank, so, as I said, the fuel selection valve is a totally separate problem and unrelated, under this aspect only, to the van not starting once warm.

Alley also had a loose dipstick that was blowing oil and when I removed the "cowling" or "doghouse" or whatever you want to call the thing that covers the V-8 Engine inside the van, I found traces of ceramic-hardened oil deposits on the exhaust manifold and pipes.

Also, a heater hose had blown around the same time, about two years ago, and I found the spark plugs and spark plug wire connectors covered with a yellow-brownish combination of oil and water and rust!

I removed the coil and condensor [capacitor to Electronic Technicians and Engineers trained after Maxwell's era and Henry Ford's era] noting that both were rusted badly. The coil showed distinct whitish "discharge" flared-out spots from the coil to the outer laminations that support the coil. This is characteristic of extremely high voltage shorting and discharging, in the 10,000 Volt upwards of 50,000 Volt range.

I decided to do a Major Tuneup, which is, replace the coil, condensor, all spark plugs, all spark plug and coil wires, the distributor cap, the rotor button, and the inevitable Ignition Control Module [ICM on Ford, ECM or Electronics Control Module on Chevrolet Monte Carlo's of the 1979 vintage]. In any case, anything and everything I can replace in the ignition chain will be replaced.

Second, I will replace the Fuel Selector Valve, although I have been told how to modify the design so that one can eliminate the selector valve altogether. More on that next time.

Finally, I will finish the welding of the strange catalytic converter pipe hanging from the shock mount. It is a factory weldment because the steel is of at least twice the thickness [next gauge down = heavier]. But it's safe to say that it is at least 1/8th inch thick, which is much thicker than standard exhaust and tailpipes. I mention that because the size of the welding rod, and the amperage used in arc welding is a function of the thickness.

Gotta go for now,

The_Dr.

 

You can see it on my pic: it's on the right hand exhaust manifold

 

Also this powerpoint presentation may help you understand the system a little better, althought it's pretty big.
http://www.ncfto.org/Articles/Ford%20EEC%20IV.ppt

 

yes knightmayre I see it on the manifold thanks. I am fighting an up hill battle here but eventually I will get it . I am tired of not having anything to drive and being stuck at home. How big is that power point program could you let me know? thanks

 

Powerpoint presentation is right out of the book anyway, not too long to watch.

This weekend we'll see how far we get with the TurtleTop E150

Tj

 

I want this van running. I appreciate all the help. I am about to go nuts stuck in this house. THanks for your help. I will continue to keep you all posted

 

Hey, I recognize her!

It should be running before Monday.

I will report full details.