Here,s a point that I haven't heard discussed in the Gas Vs Diesel argument. Suppose you take 2 similar F250 s, one gas one diesel, lets say they both have automatics and 3.73. They are both pulling trailers around 8000# up a long steep grade at 60 miles an hour. The redline on the diesel is 3000 rpm this means that using 2nd gear is out of the question! The diesel must use a higher gear than the v-10, wich is at its peak torque and horse power at this speed in second gear. The lower gear multilplies the torque of the gas engine to the rear wheels. The limited rpm of a diesel is quite a drawback. To help make up for this auto manufactuers have equiped diesels with more transmission gears but it doesn't make up for their inabilty to turn faster than an idol.

 

You have just figured out why we use horsepower as a way to measure the capabilities of an engine. Deisels are not at a disadvantage though. They can make enough torque to outpull the gas in a higher gear and they get better fuel mileage. The only disadvantages are initial cost and some places don't have a lot of diesel stations around requiring the owner to travel a little bit. The V10 is a great engine but it will never will be nor was it intended to be the workhorse the powerstroke is.

 

My point being that diesels require more torque to get the same job done do their gearing disadvantage. The old 6.9 diesels are great engines but did not put out any more torque than a stock 460 and would not pull a load as fast do do their 2800 rpm limit.

 

You are right about the old 6.9L and the 460. Diesels do require more torque than the gas engines as they spin lower RPMs but the new diesels have taken over. Horsepower is a good measure for finding out how much work an engine can accomplish. The 6.0L makes 15 more than the V10 and has more gears to work with.

 

also back when the 6.9 and 460 was made the 460 was a total gas hog, yeah it could really pull but the 6.9 was good for a lot more miles per gallon and could still get the job done and ratsmoker is right diesels have pretty well taken over in the modern days.

 

Not to mention low end grunt and part throttle, trailer budging power.

 

The point I am trying to make is that there are a lot o guys out there buying diesels that don't use them the way they were intended to be used. And that is to pull loads and work for for an honest 8-10 hours a day. The guy that bought one to to his boat to the lake the fastest, 10 days a year will learn his lesson. I live in a area where the average guy works in the timber industry. They all buy and drive diesels because most of the euipment they operate have a Cumins 6 or a v8 cat. Proven motors for industrial equipment. Also because they can run off road diesel with no tax ( about 40 cents a gallon cheaper) that's a good reason. What's not a good reason is because a car salesman told them it was the best truck to buy. I have driven 6.9s 7.3s 5.9cummins, 460s and the v10 and I bought the v10 because it was the right truck for the way I use it. Also before the new Ford 6.0 Every diesel owner I know put several thousand dollars to get the power to where it would out pull a gaser. 4 inch exhaust
power programer, biger injectors, cracked block due to excessive exhaust gas temp. The 5 speed manual in the Ford and Dodge and the Auto in the Dodge would't last 100,000 miles without a $2500 dollar repair bill if you did the labor yourself. If you bought a diesel and use it, good for you, if your wife uses it to get groceries than you will find out what the 7.3 owners found out when your so called 300,000 mile motor sucks a valve at 160,000 miles and it costs $6000 dollars to rebuild. I am a die hard Ford man and have put in hours on my Ford trucks, would buy nothing else. Some day I may own a Ford diesel. But I know way to many guys that own one that shouldn't.

2001 F250 4x4 V-10
87 Mustang 5.0 Gt T-top
68 Bronco, GT 351W, from the bare frame up, in my garage, a few beers later, with much credit to Tom's and my buddies.
89 Ranger, 2.9, never been in a repair shop, original clutch, a few broken front axels later, still a daily driver, and I'm talken EVERY DAY!

 

Well, theres not a whole lot that can be done about who buys what truck. You are correct though in that a lot of people are probably misinformed at the dealer. It does take a long time to earn back that $6000 you spend on the diesel by saving on your fuel bill. They do cost more in repairs when they go down. I just turned down what I though was the perfect truck to pull my truck to the track because it had a 6.9L. I don't want the repair bills if it decides to go south on me.

 

LOL this is a setup guys! Invert the argument and the gaser looks like a toad, much worse than the desiel does! Just pick a load ,speed and rpm where the desiel is at peak rpm and the V-10 off its curve and everything reverses!
The fact is with even HP ratings the Desiel will feel way peppyer and use a lot less fuel, cost less to run ,but cost more at the onset

 

Dear peppy, that's what I was trying to do, but 3 things:
1) higher revving engines allow the use of lower gears allowing a torqe multiplication to the rear wheels.

2) the diesel maintanance and repairs cancel out the fuel savings in most cases,

3) when running above stock richer fuel ratio in a diesel caused by bigger injectors, and higher injector fuel pressure, during towing exhaust gas temp rises above reliable levels. The things done to get big power numbers out of diesels also make them self distruct under heavy loads.

 

You are 100%, couldn't be more correct, dead right on point 1. We are seening eye to eye man. Point 2 and 3 most likely depends on the engine you are referring to though. Semis fare much better with their diesels but a gas engine of similar HP levels could do the job if it had to.

 

Sorry but IMHO I think you are WAY off!Now Its not like I know everything after all I have only driven about 4,360,000 miles and over 1000 diferent engine and transmission combinations from every manufacter in the US and most imports
But in point 2 I think its very much the reverse!Desiel maintence is way cheaper!(one of the reasons they use them in trains and trucks and jets)
and point 3 is an invalid construct
.
.
3) when running above stock richer fuel ratio in a diesel caused by bigger injectors, and higher injector fuel pressure, during towing exhaust gas temp rises above reliable levels.
.
.deisels run wot so biger injecters my still leave it lean so the concluedtion is not valid
.
. The things done to get big power numbers out of diesels also make them self distruct under heavy loads.


WAY so Invalid! the biggest power numbers to day are in the MOST RELIABLE engines

 

Just to make my self clear I am only talking abou the diesel engines curently available in the Big Three pickup line up.

keep on trucken, Pilot

 

Which is just fine with the diesel, because it is producing just as much torque (force) at 2700 revs as the gasser is at 4000revs. In the meantime, the cornbinder is idleing along while the gasser is screaming pulling twice revs. Which is going puke a valve or spin a bearing first?

What it really comes down to is a matter of preference. Nobody "needs" the V-10 any more than they "need" the powerstroke. Back in the late 80's my work truck was a F-250 with a 302 and 4.10 rear axle. It would pull a trailer anywere my powerestroke will, just not as fast. However, it would be ridiculous expect the 302 to live as long as a cornbinder under a heavy work load.

I traded in my old 460 (which I loved) for a powerstroke bacause (1) I was tired of watching diesels blow by me on hills, and (2) I tend to keep my pickups for a long time. Since I bought the cornbinder (bone stock), I have passed a lot more gasser than have passed me. That is return enough on the extra investment I made for the diesel as far as I'm concerned (much of which I expect to get back *if* I ever trade it in).