Interesting read.... Black Tank Shut-off/Drain Valve - Page 2 - Forest River Forums

 

That is a good article (the PDF - 52 pages or there abouts) in the link. I am 9 pages in. That speaks to a lot of dynamics in a lot of depth. I sure hope there is some good that comes out of it, though I assume the "deaf ears" will prevail...

 

It will do about as much good as the news articles about a dysfunctional congress. Business as usual.

 

I could be wrong here, but I think something is happening and I think it is the result of the Internet and consumer complaints. More discussion about needing to do something about quality control in the last six months than in the last 20 years and now nearly all the suppliers are offering tech training, something that was completely absent until five years ago and then it was only one or at most two manufacturers. Now they all are on the band wagon. I am not saying the battle is won, but it is hard to argue they are not starting to pay attention.

 

Record sales again this year. The industry will not be changing until that changes.

 

Just curious here - has anyone actually, or is anyone actually, taking the time to read the article?

It is an interesting perspective from an apparently very informed, through self research and experience, journalist (although I have found several typos that in re-formatting to the PDF have still been overlooked - I won't deduct typos from my qualifying his level of being informed, we can all make them). It does speak to a lot of what seems to be out there already if you research yourself, or have had the misfortune (as Monty has as of late and still dealing with, among others here) of dealing with first hand.

I just think that, in general, most Forum audiences don't always absorb what is being discussed or take in to consideration the initial perspective offered. Rather, a quick-fire, from-the-hip reply is what we get and what the thread material ends up comprised of.

Though, I do hope Steve is right. If what he indicates is happening in more dealers and manufacturers lending an ear for improving the "quality control" process then perhaps the "squeaky wheels" are annoying enough people that there is some oil starting to flow. That same theme of lack of training is mentioned several times in the article. The other aspect of that is turn over rates with manufacturing as well as dealer techs. The hard part is how do you train people and retain them? Then, if you do loose them - how do you replace them with someone already trained up and experienced?

I am stocking all of this knowledge, and the perspectives, in my research on RV's. This is the kind of information that becomes my compass on what direction I am going, what I look at, how I look at it, and what questions I ask about it. If the general population would do the same in their RV research that may lead to some bigger changes faster for the RV industry because dealers couldn't just provide koolaid with people drinking it all day long like most people do today - as reflected in the sales numbers.

 

That's a very innocent take on things Steve. I hope it all works out for you.

 

Thanks you sir! No one has called me innocent for a very long time.

Steve

 

One thing worth throwing out is, if buyers would focus on basic construction features rather than counting the number of flat screens and slide-outs, things would improve much faster, IMO.

I wonder how many folks who discuss brands in this forum have taken the time to get the specs on floor thickness or roof truss construction. If you bought an "arctic pack" or "four season insulation package" did you check to see what it actually meant? One manufacturer uses that those terms and there is no belly insulation at all in their travel trailers! No need to harp, but until folks start paying attention to that stuff, no one is going to improve on what no one is buying!

Steve

 

Yes. Reading the nutrition label on the box of koolaid mix. Though, with the way things have been portrayed in the RV industry, the nutrition label isn't backed up with regulations and the FDA supervising. So, in a few words, it becomes up to the consumer to make of it what they do. At least if one reads the labels and looks a little deeper than the flashy cover on the front they might become a bit more informed.

The question is how do you get the general public to be "informed" to guide their research and purchasing decisions? The general public is who, as referred to in the post D B Travelers wrote with the link to the PDF on the Forest River forums sites, is really the "target audience" for new sales - those that have not bought yet, so the manufacturers are hoping, are the ones that are going to add to the "9 million households" in the US that own RV's figure.

 

The RV Dealer's Association (RVDA) and RV Industry Association (RVIA) are listening to this guy. They issued a statement yesterday that said they will hire a third party organization to "identify the primary actions needed to best improve our service-related issues." Of course, then it will cost their members (Dealers and manufacturers) money to fix the problems identified, so don't hold your breath.

I am seeing a lot more articles in the RV industry news feeds about owners of new RV's suing dealers and manufacturers over quality control issues and loss of use for months at a time to get a "new" RV fixed.

And while the RV industry is enjoying another record year for units shipped, they also have set another record - record number of recalls this year. Many are for labels, but the devil is in the details. What is the cost to the company's reputation when you have to issue a recall because "the NHTSA safety sticker lists only two axles when the RV has three axles." If they can't count axles, how can they figure weight ratings?

 

I was referring to the other Steve, Steve. LOL. (KC8QVO) But you both seem a lot less cynical and more optimistic than I am. Again, I hope you're both right but I doubt a miracle is waiting around the corner. I'll be glad if I'm wrong on this though...

 

Here is the thing about the label. I have suggested a number of times that folks who are considering buying even a used RV go online and read not the spec sheets, but the brochures with the construction cut-aways. Those things give a wealth of information about floor thickness, roof construction, etc and they are on file for nearly all the builders.

Last year my wife and I attended a large RV show and stood next to a model that was drawing a crowd to hear what they focused on. Plenty of comments about floor plans, just as there is in this forum, but I only heard one looker out of dozens ask for a spec sheet and try to gather more information.

The single thing I think that is driving a change in attitude is plain and simple information on the Internet, although I do not think it is from owner forums which someone suggested earlier are basically cheerleaders, but from other sites openly critical.

So do manufacturers build crap? Heck yes! I have been trying to put it back together for decades. Do dealers know it? Absolutely? Do most buyers care? If you answer based on their buying behavior, they put more effort into selecting bananas for their cereal than dropping 50K on something the walls will fall off of.

Now, before I get flamed, I know what I am posting does not apply to a good many members in this forum, but I have also posted in the past, they do not know how exceptional they are in comparison to the average buyer.

My two cents as usual

Steve

 

I agree Steve. Most would prefer bling like 3 flat screens over an improved (non-Lippert) frame etc. The difference between forumite enthusiasts and the average buyer is we know what to expect and shouldn't be shocked when it happens. The average guy can't fathom what he's just gotten himself into and ironically will often find the forums in an effort to understand what just happened to his new baby.

 

We need a Ralph Nader for the RV industry. I know most of the RV issues are not safety related, which Nader's crusade was focused on, but when we are paying the money we are paying (in most cases more than an auto), we shouldn't accept some of the issues we end up with.

Warranty coverage is another issue I have. Most dealers won't either look at your unit or will put you at the back of the line if you didn't buy your unit at their business.

S