Swapping a 6.4 or 6.7 starter into the 6.0
#31
10-22-2016, 04:17 PM
I have a few meters at the shop which I am at home right now. As for the charts/numbers being reversed I thought the same but I know for a fact the 6.4 spins faster than the 6.0, in the charts you can see the starter speed at all points of the test is higher with the 6675 (6.4) vs. the 6670 (6.0). I'm also assuming the escalating part #'s tie into them being correct as well. Has to be in the gearing. I did also read somewhere on the interweb a report of a dealer offering the 6.4 starter for the 6.0 but as we all know everything on the web is "true". I am thinking Ford must have redesigned the 6.0 starter based on performance and made it more efficient for the 6.4?
#33
10-22-2016, 04:24 PM
#34
10-22-2016, 04:35 PM
Do you have a way to capture voltage numbers real-time? Like I can do that in 1/10th second intervals on Torque Pro. This would be really cool to cut that 10.5V FICM low out during cranking... Crap, maybe we'll start a whole new trend of going to smaller alternators for improved mileage...
Do FICMs have capacitors to maintain voltage for short durations?
#35
10-22-2016, 04:51 PM
I don't think it has to be the gearing. An alternator doesn't have to be bigger to output more power. Windings, armature to field ratios and timing, armature contact and overall design can be maximized to make more torque. Thing is, unless efficiency is increased power consumption goes up. Even changing the gearing to increase torque or rpm would require a corresponding increase in electrical power consumption unless there is some increase in efficiency.
The baddest electric motor I've seen makes 3.5shp and it would easily fit in a one pound coffee can. The trick to it is the power, it runs on 3phase AC at 240v@400Hz.
The baddest electric motor I've seen makes 3.5shp and it would easily fit in a one pound coffee can. The trick to it is the power, it runs on 3phase AC at 240v@400Hz.
#36
10-22-2016, 05:01 PM
#37
10-22-2016, 05:04 PM
I don't think it has to be the gearing. An alternator doesn't have to be bigger to output more power. Windings, armature to field ratios and timing, armature contact and overall design can be maximized to make more torque. Thing is, unless efficiency is increased power consumption goes up. Even changing the gearing to increase torque or rpm would require a corresponding increase in electrical power consumption unless there is some increase in efficiency.
The baddest electric motor I've seen makes 3.5shp and it would easily fit in a one pound coffee can. The trick to it is the power, it runs on 3phase AC at 240v@400Hz.
The baddest electric motor I've seen makes 3.5shp and it would easily fit in a one pound coffee can. The trick to it is the power, it runs on 3phase AC at 240v@400Hz.
Maybe they did a combination of both? Smaller gears to make it easier on the motor and designed the motor to spin faster? Hell, I don't know how they did it but glad they did.
#39
10-22-2016, 07:50 PM
I just through the 28 page thread on the org where the spec sheets came from. They were rebuilt starters at an auto parts house. They've gone through all the same questions as here with no real answer.
It's not only the 6.4 starter but the 6.7 will work too. The difference with the 6.7 is the lower bolt is smaller in diameter so all three are the same. So for a 6.7 starter you need a
m8x1.25 x40 flange bolt which will pass through the hole in the bel housing and thread into the starter. Most leave it just as is, but a simple bushing from McMaster would fill out the 10mm hole.
Two years ago the 6.4 starters were cheaper, the same price as many 6.7 are listed on eBay now, so a good volume of 6.0 owners upgrading may have boosted the 6.4 price.
Recon done.
It's not only the 6.4 starter but the 6.7 will work too. The difference with the 6.7 is the lower bolt is smaller in diameter so all three are the same. So for a 6.7 starter you need a
m8x1.25 x40 flange bolt which will pass through the hole in the bel housing and thread into the starter. Most leave it just as is, but a simple bushing from McMaster would fill out the 10mm hole.
Two years ago the 6.4 starters were cheaper, the same price as many 6.7 are listed on eBay now, so a good volume of 6.0 owners upgrading may have boosted the 6.4 price.
Recon done.
#40
10-22-2016, 09:34 PM
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I just through the 28 page thread on the org where the spec sheets came from. They were rebuilt starters at an auto parts house. They've gone through all the same questions as here with no real answer.
It's not only the 6.4 starter but the 6.7 will work too. The difference with the 6.7 is the lower bolt is smaller in diameter so all three are the same. So for a 6.7 starter you need a
m8x1.25 x40 flange bolt which will pass through the hole in the bel housing and thread into the starter. Most leave it just as is, but a simple bushing from McMaster would fill out the 10mm hole.
Two years ago the 6.4 starters were cheaper, the same price as many 6.7 are listed on eBay now, so a good volume of 6.0 owners upgrading may have boosted the 6.4 price.
Recon done.
It's not only the 6.4 starter but the 6.7 will work too. The difference with the 6.7 is the lower bolt is smaller in diameter so all three are the same. So for a 6.7 starter you need a
m8x1.25 x40 flange bolt which will pass through the hole in the bel housing and thread into the starter. Most leave it just as is, but a simple bushing from McMaster would fill out the 10mm hole.
Two years ago the 6.4 starters were cheaper, the same price as many 6.7 are listed on eBay now, so a good volume of 6.0 owners upgrading may have boosted the 6.4 price.
Recon done.
TooManyToys - Do you have any more informon the 6.7 starter swap? Just poking on eBay there are several that are close to the same price but look to be in much better physical condition. Less age.
Is the purpose of the bushing just to fill the larger hole on the bell housing, but it's not totally necessary?
EDIT: I just found the 28 page thread. Time to do some reading
#41
10-22-2016, 09:46 PM
Logistics Pro
It's not only the 6.4 starter but the 6.7 will work too. The difference with the 6.7 is the lower bolt is smaller in diameter so all three are the same. So for a 6.7 starter you need a
m8x1.25 x40 flange bolt which will pass through the hole in the bel housing and thread into the starter. Most leave it just as is, but a simple bushing from McMaster would fill out the 10mm hole.
m8x1.25 x40 flange bolt which will pass through the hole in the bel housing and thread into the starter. Most leave it just as is, but a simple bushing from McMaster would fill out the 10mm hole.
#42
10-22-2016, 10:19 PM
They didn't talk about a bushing on the dark side. The original bolt on the bottom of the 6.0 and 6.4 appears to be a 10mm, while the other two are 8mm.
Over on the dark side they just consider the bolt keeping tension and clamping force between the starter and bellhousing. There is always some clearance around bolts, and maybe I'm going a little over the edge here, but I'd rather bush that out so if there is any rotation torque restraint provided by the bolts I'd rather have all three doing it rather then two. Just overthinking.
Over on the dark side they just consider the bolt keeping tension and clamping force between the starter and bellhousing. There is always some clearance around bolts, and maybe I'm going a little over the edge here, but I'd rather bush that out so if there is any rotation torque restraint provided by the bolts I'd rather have all three doing it rather then two. Just overthinking.
#43
10-22-2016, 10:33 PM
It appears the only difference between the 6.4 and 6.7 is the bottom bolt sizing.
#44
10-22-2016, 10:40 PM
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They didn't talk about a bushing on the dark side. The original bolt on the bottom of the 6.0 and 6.4 appears to be a 10mm, while the other two are 8mm.
Over on the dark side they just consider the bolt keeping tension and clamping force between the starter and bellhousing. There is always some clearance around bolts, and maybe I'm going a little over the edge here, but I'd rather bush that out so if there is any rotation torque restraint provided by the bolts I'd rather have all three doing it rather then two. Just overthinking.
Over on the dark side they just consider the bolt keeping tension and clamping force between the starter and bellhousing. There is always some clearance around bolts, and maybe I'm going a little over the edge here, but I'd rather bush that out so if there is any rotation torque restraint provided by the bolts I'd rather have all three doing it rather then two. Just overthinking.
I saw the same. Mostly clamping force, but I'm an over thinker too.
I'll most likely look for a bushing. From what I see on the dark side site they are the same besides the bolt, like you mentioned. I just like the fact that they are more readily available at lower mileages and better physical condition. Hopefully I'll have one this week!
#45
10-22-2016, 11:00 PM
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For those interested, here's the info needed for a 6.7 powerstroke starter swap in a 6.0
6.4 starter? - Page 23 - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
6.4 starter? - Page 23 - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum