What a terrible POS 4A is.

4H - good
4L - good
4A - freakin terrible FORD!

We had our first real snow storm here yesterday around PGH with 5-6" on the ground. My wife went to pickup our daughter at school in the heat of it. For some reason the 4wd woudl not engage for her and an error came up on the dash.

She proceeded to not make it up our driveway and parked it in the grass until I could get home to get it unstuck.

I hop in and put it in 4A just to see if it would engage. Holy cow what a terrible "Automatic" system. It hits 4wd so hard after the rear is spinning the front just spins and no forward progress. It also waits until seemingly 1 full rear tire rotation before engaging.

Put it in 4H and the vehicle just pulled itself out with no issues.


I have driven cars and small SUV's with a similar automatic 4wd system and they always performed far far better. I would consider this system pretty much worthless!


I decided to screw around in my yard and 4A continued to be a clunky, poorly executed, 4wd system.

 

It's all relative. How hard were you on the gas? I have 350k miles with A4WD in Expeditions. My experience is that A4WD is a supplement for when you suspect the ground may be slippery - rain, black ice, light snow but wouldn't be able to be in 4Hi because of potentially binding up. It isn't the setting to be using when you know you are plowing through stuff or trying to get into a difficult driveway.

 

I think 4A in my 2015 is terrible. I think the 22" stock tires are terrible. I also hate that when I turn off traction control, it still kicks in at times. Really annoying. This will probably be my last expedition.

 

it is very very poorly executed for an automatic system.


Does the transfer case send power to the front when the rear slip? Sure does!

Does it do it in a manner that is too delayed from the rear losing traction? Sure does!

Does it do it in a manner that the power hits the front so hard that the front just quickly looses traction on a slippery surface as well? Sure does!


Previously my wife had an AWD Sante Fe that was 1/3 the price of this expedition and without a doubt the automatic 4wd system on that vehicle was light years more refined than the expedition.

Now granted, that is a slight apples/oranges comparison due to power and size of vehicles, but I can tell you the difference is freaking apples to (insert something 1 billion times different than an apple here) in execution.


At this point in time, I wouldn't trust 4A to get my wife and kids around in wintry conditions....

Go in my yard with 6" fresh snow....4A...give it gas rear tires spin and there is no forward movement...front kicks in way to hard and still no movement.

Click to 4H and give the same amount of pedal and vehicle just walks right out.


I have been a Ford guy my whole life and have owned 25 vehicles in 18 yrs of driving with only 1 being a Non-Ford product. At this point I am disappointed I didn't consider the Suburban.....

(I also can't stand the transmission programming in the expedition...it lugs the engine way below the powerband before downshifting)

 

If I recall correctly awd is for light duty applications. As I understand it the brakes will be automatically applied to a slipping wheel forcing the opposite wheel on that axle to turn. If you are spinning your rear wheels and then engage awd it most likely will jerk and clunk when engaging. It's not designed for that. In fact, no awd setups in any vehicle will survive those conditions. That's on the verge of abuse more than just use.

 

4A sends power to the front differential in the event the rear loses traction.


At no point in time did I say the rear was already spinning and while spinning, I put it in 4A.

In fact, I would bet the factory has an override on that very procedure.


4A is a terribly executed function on this vehicle....as-is the transmission programming under load/low engine rpm conditions.

For a 2015 65k vehicle, I expected more.

 

I'm sorry, did I miss something there?

It sounds like your system is working properly. You put it in 4wd to get unstuck. AWD is not for that purpose.

Edit to add: It takes the drive system to be unloaded or not in a bind to engage the 4wd. If you were impatient and tried 4a before it had the chance to engage and the system didn't lock up then yes, it would jerk into gear. It needs to be in neutral when 4a or 4wd is engaged. Otherwise you would get the jerk into gear that you got. Again, the system is working normally.

 

Have not had mine as long as some of you guys but no observed issues with 4wd thus far. Seems to alleviate any wheelspin in 2wd on icy road surfaces with a proper winter tire which is exactly what i want and expect it to do.

I wonder if your issues are not related to tires (are you still runnning oem in winter?) and the eco engine producing lots of torque and hp. You keep talking about "hitting the gas". Seems to be the wrong way to drive a large powerful vehicle in a stuck situation.

 

Yes, indeed you are missing something. Clearly I stated the vehicle was already in 4A. Give an appropriate amount of throttle to move forward and wheel spin occurs. The system sees the issue and the "automatic" part of 4A engages the front driveshaft....and this where I think the system down right sucks. The engagement is very abrupt, as well as the amount of tire rotation allowed from the rear before engaging...but the worst is the engagement itself.

This is no different than if I was driving up a snow covered hill in 4A during wintry conditions. Then i hit a slick spot and the rear starts to spin. I feel that the automatic part would hit the front hard enough to break the front tires loose as well.

I am not sure how the ford system works (solenoid to engage gears?, clutches?, viscous coupling?) vs other manufacturers...but without a doubt, other vehicles 4A system works FAR BETTER AND SMOOTHER for much less money.

I think it is working just fine as per the design - never said it wasn't. I said the design/operation is terrible. Good thing it has full time 4wd capability...because the 4A would get a person stuck 98% of the time. LOL

Again...never implied for one second it wasn't working as per design. Just stating the design blows compared to other manufacturers I have been in. Just like the transmission programming...poorly executed.

Question for you: If it takes the drivetrain to be unloaded for the front wheels to get power, what exactly is the automatic function supposed to do?

Clearly that is not correct - of course it can engage during some amount of load. The issue is how this engagement is done...which in this case...is done poorly IMO.

 

Somethingclever, regarding the transmission, I wonder if yours needs to be reflashed or something. The shifting on my 2013 was poor, there was a huge hesitation on the 1-2 shift that felt really awkward. I noticed the shifting problems almost every time I drove it. By comparison, my 2015's shift points and shift quality are perfect. regarding the 4a, I've only been in the snow once with mine, when I was in Erie fishing right before Christmas and it dumped one night. I spent some time in a vacant parking lot getting a feel for the 4a and 4h operation and had zero problems before getting out on the street. Worked fine on the street as well in both modes with no sensation of jolting when 4a engaged the front diff. Just wondering if you have a repairable (electronic/programming ?) problem with both conditions you report. Good luck.

 

Hey sorry to chime into an older thread, but didn't you say in the OP that 4wd would not engage and an error came up on the dash? This is a good indication that something could be wrong with the system and it's operating in a debilitated function.

4A does react to slipping rear tires as you've said, and that engagement could potentially be felt but it shouldn't be as extreme as you've described. More importantly, in 4A the system DOES send torque to the front before any slip occurs. Traction permitting (e.g. the tires are not great) you should be able to easily pull through deep snow in 4A; you have most of the capability of 4H but none of the binding that's inherent when you're locked up in 4H.

I would suggest you check codes to see what was/is the issue that your wife originally experienced with the 4x4.

 

another winter is here and another terrible experience with 4A.

It does not send power to the front until the rear loses traction.

The engagement of the front is terrible...just terrible.

No codes of any kind.

Another issue is the traction contol will enable itself killing power just after the front kicks in and progress is made.

 

What year and model of Expedition have you got?

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I have been using the left hand display on my dashboard to show the Power Distribution graphic, available under the OFF Road section of the menu.

ALL my driving this Friday and Saturday was on snowy/icy roads at speeds from 20-65 MPH, and on snowcover up to 4 inches. 9 hours, 500 miles.

I was lightly loaded, no trailer, rolling the factory P275/65R18 Goodyear Wranglers. I was wearing a red Christmas shirt, in case you wondered.

Ran in 4A most of the time, and found NO affect on Miles Per Gallon when I stopped, shifted into 2H and then continued in the same conditions... Still got over 17 mpg. The Power Distribution graphic showed some power being directed to the front axle whenever I was in snow or accelerating. It was always very smooth and steady. Very surefooted and I am used to driving the Excursion with that heavy 7.3 PSD over the front wheels and Michelin MTX all around. I think the fully independent front and rear suspension are also a factor in keeping all the tires planted all the time.

The Transfer case in my Expedition is made by Borg-Warner and they call it a Torque on Demand unit, Ford calls it ControlTrac. It comes in several versions, The Expedition versions have 2H/4A/4H/4L the Lincoln Navigators do not have 4L. There is NO center differential, all power to the front and rear driveshafts go thru clutches. This allows nice easy on the fly spinup when leaving 2H or when 4A needs the front axle. The front clutch in the differential just starts to squeeze and easily, smoothly spins up the front driveshaft. These clutches are VERY good at modulating how much torque is transferred to the front or the rear. Here's a video from Borg Warner.


Also a pretty good thread on our website.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ally-work.html

 

Ours in 16 navigator works great, get it checked out

 

Check pages 177 and 178 in the manual. If you hold the traction control button for 5 seconds it will disable all nannies until you hit 35 mph. That should help those of us that want to uh, say, "test" our trucks limits??